MiSTer FPGA Forum

I used update_all script today and afterwards the various standard scanline filters are not doing anything at all. The shadow mask is still working but can not use it with scanlines also enabled. I notice video processing has it’s own section now. Other filters are still working just not any of the scanline ones including composite blend with scanlines. Anyone else notice this issue since updating to v2022105?

Same here, the f happened? ='(

In the 'Horz filter' field, select 'From file' and then choose one of the interpolation filters (or the scanline filter you were already using; it won't matter, since only the "blurriness" values will be read).

In the 'Vert filter' field, choose one of the already existing vertical scanline filters; 'Scan filter' setting, you can leave at 'Same as Vert'. Shadow masks are working as before.

...or I guess you could wait for the new adapted filters by @ghogan42; he's already submitted a pull request (maybe I should post them here, but I'm not sure he'd approve)

Is there a "safe" way to rollback Mister updates?

Dacaskos wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:26 pm Is there a "safe" way to rollback Mister updates?

Yes, just download the previous Main_MiSTer file. But why would you do that?

This works ok for me though I found it a bit confusing selecting something named as a vertical filter to produce horizontal scanlines onscreen. I guess the Horiz field does x axis processing and Vert does Y axis processing. Makes more sense from that perspective since it’s skipping lines vertically to produce the scanline effect. Looking forward to the ‘adapted’ versions.

lamarax wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:30 pm

Dacaskos wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:26 pm Is there a "safe" way to rollback Mister updates?

Yes, just download the previous Main_MiSTer file. But why would you do that?

Thanks! Rolled with the updated cores too

Well, the scanline filter is "broke" and I just wanted to play some games at the last day off work

Tested the TG16-CD to see if the castlevania weird low sfx was fixed, it still works the same so...

will wait for another update.

It also looks like resolution switching is a lot slower, which is especially bad on a core like the Amiga which can switch resolutions inside a game multiple times in a few seconds. (I don’t have any hard numbers, though)

EDIT: I can’t make any meaningful measurements, so ignore this. Might have been a bad TV firmware update.

limi wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:19 pm It also looks like resolution switching is a lot slower, which is especially bad on a core like the Amiga which can switch resolutions inside a game multiple times in a few seconds. (I don’t have any hard numbers, though)

It's possible that adding more phases has made it so setups using vsync_adjust=2 will make certain displays have more trouble with sync. Did you notice a difference by switching to vsync_adjust=1?

realstar wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:51 pm Looking forward to the ‘adapted’ versions.

These just got merged! Onto manually re-adjusting each and every core (with trial-and-error)!

Remember; you'll want interpolation in the 'horz' field ('Upscale - Recommended' is what I uh, recommend; they're Gaussian sharpening filters), and scanlines in the 'vert' field. Presets in the root of the folder are a good starting point/ballpark. I like the homogeneity the new standard offers, along with the variation possibilities ahead (since now scanline brightness/thickness/"blurriness", and conformity with the actual pixel resolution are decoupled).

LCD filters are missing, but will be added soon I hope.

Just updated this evening, and im confused now. Where is the nice composite blend filter? I used that to give a nice soft look to some of the filters.. i dont see the option now anywhere?

MikkyTee wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:12 pm Just updated this evening, and im confused now. Where is the nice composite blend filter? I used that to give a nice soft look to some of the filters.. i dont see the option now anywhere?

They are not compatible. ghogan42 or someone else will have to create new composite blend filters from scratch.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Filters_MiSTer/pull/32

HarborSeal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:05 pm They are not compatible. ghogan42 or someone else will have to create new composite blend filters from scratch.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Filters_MiSTer/pull/32

They're not called "composite blend" filters. But they're there, inside the interpolation folders. Try them.

I get that people don't have much time, will, or inclination to mess with such things, especially since most have ended up with a "sweet spot" before, but come on, things must go forward. It's an evolving project, and we're just hopping on.

lamarax wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:23 pm

HarborSeal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:05 pm They are not compatible. ghogan42 or someone else will have to create new composite blend filters from scratch.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Filters_MiSTer/pull/32

They're not called "composite blend" filters. But they're there, inside the interpolation folders. Try them.

I get that people don't have much time, will, or inclination to mess with such things, especially since most have ended up with a "sweet spot" before, but come on, things must go forward. It's an evolving project, and we're just hopping on.

I get things moving forward, but it just really sucks to update and then find things that used to work fine suddenly no longer work. There's, like, zero consideration for the user experience of using the MiSTer. This shouldn't have rolled out until all the other parts were ready.

MiSTer has always been a tinker toy. For better or worse. Usually the new ideas/additions end up being better in the long run.

Right now, I'm using the Gaussian filters to approximate the settings I used for composite blend.

AtomicShroom wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:36 pm

lamarax wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:23 pm

HarborSeal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:05 pm They are not compatible. ghogan42 or someone else will have to create new composite blend filters from scratch.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Filters_MiSTer/pull/32

They're not called "composite blend" filters. But they're there, inside the interpolation folders. Try them.

I get that people don't have much time, will, or inclination to mess with such things, especially since most have ended up with a "sweet spot" before, but come on, things must go forward. It's an evolving project, and we're just hopping on.

I get things moving forward, but it just really sucks to update and then find things that used to work fine suddenly no longer work. There's, like, zero consideration for the user experience of using the MiSTer. This shouldn't have rolled out until all the other parts were ready.

Can I ask you an honest question? Is there a need for you to update to the latest version, e.g. a feature or fix that helps you, or would you have been fine to remain on (or rollback to) a previous version?

What is the purpose of the "scan" filter category? Seems like scanlines go into "vertical", so what does "scan" do?

for my particular use case, nothing changed, except for the shadow masks being better oriented from syncing at the start of the video signal

i understand some peoples setups will be interrupted, and was also surprised by the update i didnt know was happening, but this will absolutely be better in the long run, and im very excited for these new video processing options. we are getting to some very retro comparable video outputs that, aside from motion, will look incredibly close to a CRT (or add enough CRT texture to not bother with them)

i think in about 5 years, once BFI becomes standard in retro refresh rate compatible monitors, we will get to a point where the motion and look of a CRT will be very close to the "real thing". obviously not exactly the same, but to a point where even purists will be content with playing on modern technology

as is, the video output options on the MiSTer over HDMI are 100% satisfactory. but when monitor BFI gets polished and fine tuned,
i think most folks will be able to put their CRTs to rest without feeling like theyre missing out on something

H3ML5XLAXBKU wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:53 am

AtomicShroom wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:36 pm

lamarax wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:23 pm

They're not called "composite blend" filters. But they're there, inside the interpolation folders. Try them.

I get that people don't have much time, will, or inclination to mess with such things, especially since most have ended up with a "sweet spot" before, but come on, things must go forward. It's an evolving project, and we're just hopping on.

I get things moving forward, but it just really sucks to update and then find things that used to work fine suddenly no longer work. There's, like, zero consideration for the user experience of using the MiSTer. This shouldn't have rolled out until all the other parts were ready.

Can I ask you an honest question? Is there a need for you to update to the latest version, e.g. a feature or fix that helps you, or would you have been fine to remain on (or rollback to) a previous version?

I just regularly run update_all to make sure I’m up to date with all cores. Should I need a reason?

AtomicShroom wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:42 am

H3ML5XLAXBKU wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:53 am

AtomicShroom wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:36 pm

I get things moving forward, but it just really sucks to update and then find things that used to work fine suddenly no longer work. There's, like, zero consideration for the user experience of using the MiSTer. This shouldn't have rolled out until all the other parts were ready.

Can I ask you an honest question? Is there a need for you to update to the latest version, e.g. a feature or fix that helps you, or would you have been fine to remain on (or rollback to) a previous version?

I just regularly run update_all to make sure I’m up to date with all cores. Should I need a reason?

I am not trying to be confrontational here, I can tell that you have a different set of expectations about the MiSTer project than I do. However, have you considered that there should be no expectation of a quality user experience for free software?

This project is not built for you or me, it is built for the people who are building it. They have chosen to share it with us for free as a gift without asking for any compensation in return. In that case, is it not fine for them to also choose how and when to release updates?

• They have not taken away previous versions or forced the update onto every one like so many mobile apps, games, and websites. One can rollback to a previous version at anytime.
• They communicate the changes on this website and through other channels in an open way. Users can decide if and when to upgrade knowing the potential issues that may arise.

Maybe you should need a reason to update if you have found yourself in a situation that you don't like from just running the script regularly? It may save you from feeling this way again. This is just my perspective though.

Had the same issue and was about to come here for solutions but I solved it somehow. I just deleted filters from SD card and downloaded filters from github page https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Distribution_MiSTer

At first I found this new system confusing and I still do not know what "Scan filter" does when there is already horizontal and vertical filters and absolutely nothing happens when I change it... but I think I will figure it out in a month or so after I do next update

New system allows you to set filters separately and they merged scanline filters to be symmetrical so they have both horizontal and vertical scanlines now.

I use Scanlines - Brighter/125pct Brightness/Scan_Br_125_60 for vertical and SNES Interpolation (Sharp) for horizontal filter and it looks about the same as filter I used before SL_Br_125_065_Sharp if not better.

Shadow Mask option is pretty cool. The LamerDeluxe Masks/Nano/SubPixelCheckered/CheckeredSubtleBright19 looks awesome on my 4K LCD on which I do not have screen door effect (not from meter/3feet away anyways). For VGA CRT I will however disable this because it has its own shadow mask filter built-in

kalach.x wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:00 am Shadow Mask option is pretty cool. The LamerDeluxe Masks/Nano/SubPixelCheckered/CheckeredSubtleBright19 looks awesome on my 4K LCD on which I do not have screen door effect (not from meter/3feet away anyways). For VGA CRT I will however disable this because it has its own shadow mask filter built-in

Great to hear that! I don't have a 4K LCD display to test on, only a 4K OLED display, which will have different sub-pixels. Good to know that this pattern works well on your 4K display.

LamerDeluxe wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:46 am

kalach.x wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:00 am Shadow Mask option is pretty cool. The LamerDeluxe Masks/Nano/SubPixelCheckered/CheckeredSubtleBright19 looks awesome on my 4K LCD on which I do not have screen door effect (not from meter/3feet away anyways). For VGA CRT I will however disable this because it has its own shadow mask filter built-in

Great to hear that! I don't have a 4K LCD display to test on, only a 4K OLED display, which will have different sub-pixels. Good to know that this pattern works well on your 4K display.

Smaller 4K monitors are great because they have so tiny pixels it is almost impossible to see their screen door / subpixels unless gazing at display from closer than normal watching distances.
Unfortunately Mister doesn't support 4K and I only ran it at 1080p so perfection has not yet been reached

BTW. Most patterns have scaling issues including most yours. Probably need to tinker with scaling but I was running 1080p Genesis/SNES with crop option and it still didn't work correctly for all of them. I wonder why shadow mask filter even scales with game content rather than being overplayed on top of everything. Probably it was easier to implement that way but imho it doesn't make any sense and makes configuration much harder than it needs to be. It is not like CRT cared for trace falling perfectly on its shadow mask patterns...

In either way the pattern I mentioned works correctly and I like these tiny/nano patterns because this is exactly the kind of shadow mask resolution I expect my gaming CRT's to have having PVM 14M2E, JVC TM-H1750C and VGA CRT's.

kalach.x wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:08 am

LamerDeluxe wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:46 am

kalach.x wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:00 am Shadow Mask option is pretty cool. The LamerDeluxe Masks/Nano/SubPixelCheckered/CheckeredSubtleBright19 looks awesome on my 4K LCD on which I do not have screen door effect (not from meter/3feet away anyways). For VGA CRT I will however disable this because it has its own shadow mask filter built-in

Great to hear that! I don't have a 4K LCD display to test on, only a 4K OLED display, which will have different sub-pixels. Good to know that this pattern works well on your 4K display.

Smaller 4K monitors are great because they have so tiny pixels it is almost impossible to see their screen door / subpixels unless gazing at display from closer than normal watching distances.
Unfortunately Mister doesn't support 4K and I only ran it at 1080p so perfection has not yet been reached

BTW. Most patterns have scaling issues including most yours. Probably need to tinker with scaling but I was running 1080p Genesis/SNES with crop option and it still didn't work correctly for all of them. I wonder why shadow mask filter even scales with game content rather than being overplayed on top of everything. Probably it was easier to implement that way but imho it doesn't make any sense and makes configuration much harder than it needs to be. It is not like CRT cared for trace falling perfectly on its shadow mask patterns...

In either way the pattern I mentioned works correctly and I like these tiny/nano patterns because this is exactly the kind of shadow mask resolution I expect my gaming CRT's to have having PVM 14M2E, JVC TM-H1750C and VGA CRT's.

Glad you like those tiny patterns. The shadow mask patterns are applied at native display resolution. But the different core resolutions and the fact that the mask patterns are digital and not physical resolution will cause interference patterns, especially visible when using scan-lines filters. Trash Uncle went through a lot of effort testing his patterns against all kinds of scaling sizes, to see which ones work well at which scale.

The masks are being updated with support for multiple native resolutions per mask, so hopefully that is going to help against the interference patterns.

AtomicShroom wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:36 pm I get things moving forward, but it just really sucks to update and then find things that used to work fine suddenly no longer work. There's, like, zero consideration for the user experience of using the MiSTer. This shouldn't have rolled out until all the other parts were ready.

I understand your frustration. I am currently trying to figure out how to get the new system to look close to the Catmull_ROM_Scanlines we had before, but the system is not that self-explanatory.

AtomicShroom wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:42 am I just regularly run update_all to make sure I’m up to date with all cores. Should I need a reason?

This is a collaborative hobby project in a very complex field. It's to be expected that there will be some snags along the way (just like that Linux update which broke many USB devices for a while). It even happens to multi-billion giants such as Microsoft, so not a great surprise here

Pesonally, I only do big "update-all" updates every month or three, and in the meantime just keep an eye on the main threads here. If I see something interesting I just update a particular core or function, and if something's broken it usually comes up very quickly too. This way it's easy to avoid major rollbacks and frustrations.

I had to update Main today due to the new PSX core beta and unfortunately lost my beautiful scanline filter. Can anyone please advise on which current settings match with the previous "Scanlines (Sharp)" filter?

mario64 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:57 pm I had to update Main today due to the new PSX core beta and unfortunately lost my beautiful scanline filter. Can anyone please advise on which current settings match with the previous "Scanlines (Sharp)" filter?

They are split up onto vertical and horizontal filters pick the Scanlines sharp for both H and V filters and you will have it back

redsteakraw wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:17 am

mario64 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:57 pm I had to update Main today due to the new PSX core beta and unfortunately lost my beautiful scanline filter. Can anyone please advise on which current settings match with the previous "Scanlines (Sharp)" filter?

They are split up onto vertical and horizontal filters pick the Scanlines sharp for both H and V filters and you will have it back

Thanks but there is no Scanlines (Sharp) filter anymore, let alone separate H and V files. Unless I’m missing them.
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Filters ... er/Filters

Horizontal should be Interpolation (Sharp), Vertical should be Scanlines (your choice).