MiSTer FPGA Forum

I've just got my DE10 board and I have nothing else. In order to try out the MiSTer I installed and updated Mr fusion, transferred some Mega Drive roms (because this core runs without any RAM expansion), launched the core and... my god the sound is awful, it's bad not only compared to the original console, but to emulation too!

The audio sort of trembles, as it was played trough a cassette player with huge "wow". Why it's like that? Is it normal or there's something wrong in my setup? I tried fiddling with the audio settings but no change was significant.

The sound should be similar to what you get from software emulation. Did you try any other cores?

Does the games sound and play too slow?

Make sure you aren't running Genesis games in PAL mode.
The core has a US, JP and PAL regions, I would set everything to US by default, unless you got a soft spot for the unoptimized PAL region games of the 80s and 90s.

You will want the SD ram module when you have a chance. Using the DDR3 for the core will produce inaccuracies as it's a timing issue with Modern Ram.
Modern ram despite running faster as worst response timing, and these cores are dependent on that response time.

softtest9 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:10 pm The sound should be similar to what you get from software emulation. Did you try any other cores?

Nope, I'm not sure which cores also run without the RAM expansion.

darksakul wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:39 pm Does the games sound and play too slow?

Make sure you aren't running Genesis games in PAL mode.
The core has a US, JP and PAL regions, I would set everything to US by default, unless you got a soft spot for the unoptimized PAL region games of the 80s and 90s.

I've set it to US and the playing speed is correct.

darksakul wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:39 pm You will want the SD ram module when you have a chance. Using the DDR3 for the core will produce inaccuracies as it's a timing issue with Modern Ram.
Modern ram despite running faster as worst response timing, and these cores are dependent on that response time.

That's probably it (I hope), bad timing would explain the "tremble" effect.

Bren McGuire wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:32 am Nope, I'm not sure which cores also run without the RAM expansion.

Cores not on this list (AO486 and many arcade for example) -->

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... -use-SDRAM

Bren McGuire wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:37 am I've set it to US and the playing speed is correct.

I brought that one up as it's the most common, even the experts made that mistake

Bren McGuire wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:37 am That's probably it (I hope), bad timing would explain the "tremble" effect.

I haven't ran my MiSTer without the ram for, ... Well I want to say prior to the pandemic.
It wouldn't hurt if someone tried to recreate the conditions to get the same results.

Dunno if this is the cause, but to get proper sound you need a good quality DAC and connect it via TOSLink or Mini-Toslink. Both FX-Audio DAC-X6 and Topping E30 sound good to my ears.

Check this out: https://nitter.net/topapate/status/1356278639516532743 . I tried a similar one but it doesn't sound very good.

pacoarcade wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:49 pm Dunno if this is the cause, but to get proper sound you need a good quality DAC and connect it via TOSLink or Mini-Toslink. Both FX-Audio DAC-X6 and Topping E30 sound good to my ears.

Check this out: https://nitter.net/topapate/status/1356278639516532743 . I tried a similar one but it doesn't sound very good.

But remember this only applies if you use the analogue audio output. As the user doesn't have a SD-RAM module I guess sound is processed via HDMI in this case.

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:55 am But remember this only applies if you use the analogue audio output. As the user doesn't have a SD-RAM module I guess sound is processed via HDMI in this case.

I/O board, not SDRAM module.

jca wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:26 am

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:55 am But remember this only applies if you use the analogue audio output. As the user doesn't have a SD-RAM module I guess sound is processed via HDMI in this case.

I/O board, not SDRAM module.

What I meant was if the user does not have a SD Ram module, I doubt he uses an I/O board. I would it is a bare DE10 nano.

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:55 am

pacoarcade wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:49 pm Dunno if this is the cause, but to get proper sound you need a good quality DAC and connect it via TOSLink or Mini-Toslink. Both FX-Audio DAC-X6 and Topping E30 sound good to my ears.

Check this out: https://nitter.net/topapate/status/1356278639516532743 . I tried a similar one but it doesn't sound very good.

But remember this only applies if you use the analogue audio output. As the user doesn't have a SD-RAM module I guess sound is processed via HDMI in this case.

Yes, I'm using HDMI and listening to the audio trough the monitor's own speakers.

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:55 am

pacoarcade wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:49 pm Dunno if this is the cause, but to get proper sound you need a good quality DAC and connect it via TOSLink or Mini-Toslink. Both FX-Audio DAC-X6 and Topping E30 sound good to my ears.

Check this out: https://nitter.net/topapate/status/1356278639516532743 . I tried a similar one but it doesn't sound very good.

But remember this only applies if you use the analogue audio output. As the user doesn't have a SD-RAM module I guess sound is processed via HDMI in this case.

Thanks, I'm planning to use Direct Video for connecting to a CRT, in this case I don't think I need a DAC but an HDMI audio extractor, correct me if I'm wrong.

1. Turn on hdmi_audio_96k in the Ini, it helps with the aliasing for many systems that don't have sampling rates near 48khz.

2. Genesis has an auto region header detection, however it also has a region priority system, make sure you put your desired region first (US>EU>JP for instance if you want US first, then EU, then JP in priority) for multi region games. Use the header detection method personally, it's extremely consistent and just works.

3. What games are you talking about that didn't sound good? DDR3 is still pretty dang good, it's almost unnoticeable what the differences are when compared to SDRAM. Maybe you are just more sensitive than I am, but I have confirmed the rubber-banding effect is what happens with DDR3. You should get the 128MB SDRAM module because the MiSTer isn't really a complete system without it.

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 2:59 pm

jca wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:26 am

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:55 am But remember this only applies if you use the analogue audio output. As the user doesn't have a SD-RAM module I guess sound is processed via HDMI in this case.

I/O board, not SDRAM module.

What I meant was if the user does not have a SD Ram module, I doubt he uses an I/O board. I would it is a bare DE10 nano.

Correct, as of now I've just the nano and a USB HUB.

aberu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:01 am 1. Turn on hdmi_audio_96k in the Ini, it helps with the aliasing for many systems that don't have sampling rates near 48khz.

Can I do this trough SMB? Also, to avoid confusion can you tell me the exact file name?

aberu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:01 am 2. Genesis has an auto region header detection, however it also has a region priority system, make sure you put your desired region first (US>EU>JP for instance if you want US first, then EU, then JP in priority) for multi region games. Use the header detection method personally, it's extremely consistent and just works.

That's how it's set: header detection and US>EU>JP

aberu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:01 am 3. What games are you talking about that didn't sound good? DDR3 is still pretty dang good, it's almost unnoticeable what the differences are when compared to SDRAM. Maybe you are just more sensitive than I am, but I have confirmed the rubber-banding effect is what happens with DDR3. You should get the 128MB SDRAM module because the MiSTer isn't really a complete system without it.

All of them, and it's not a matter of sensitivity, I've recorded a sample and I'll try to link it here. Once you hear it it'll be pretty apparent that there's something wrong, I'm not sure if it's rubber-banding or something else. I'll get the RAM eventually.

Yes you can do it over smb, just edit MiSTer.ini with notepad.

What game is that sample from? I want to test it. Thanks!

Just listened to your sample, that is beyond broken, something is very wrong there. I use a Genesis core without SDRAM and it sounds nothing like that.

Same, I just tested Contra Hard Corps and didn't hear anything like that, and that soundtrack is pretty intense for an emulator.

aberu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:23 pm Yes you can do it over smb, just edit MiSTer.ini with notepad.

What game is that sample from? I want to test it. Thanks!

It's Batman the videogame, song 13 of the sound test.

callanabrown wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:19 pm Just listened to your sample, that is beyond broken, something is very wrong there. I use a Genesis core without SDRAM and it sounds nothing like that.

aberu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:30 pm Same, I just tested Contra Hard Corps and didn't hear anything like that, and that soundtrack is pretty intense for an emulator.

I knew that couldn't be right. While I was recording the sample I found out something strange: fiddling with the monitor menu to adjust the volume or even just navigating the menu affects the audio output, it sounds even more broken while you do that.

But this happens only with the MiSTer: in order to check that I connected my WiiU in the same exact spot on the HDMI splitter, with the same HDMI cable, and I can say that the WiiU audio output is not affected in the least by navigating the monitor menus.

Sounds potentially like HDMI CEC might be affecting your monitor. You might try a cec-less cable:

https://misteraddons.com/products/video ... cart-ypbpr

Or a CEC-stripping adapter:

https://www.amazon.com/BlueRigger-HDMI- ... B07BFL8TM8

These remove pin 13 from the equation.

aberu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 5:32 pm Sounds potentially like HDMI CEC might be affecting your monitor. You might try a cec-less cable:

https://misteraddons.com/products/video ... cart-ypbpr

Or a CEC-stripping adapter:

https://www.amazon.com/BlueRigger-HDMI- ... B07BFL8TM8

These remove pin 13 from the equation.

I think you're right, I tried the MiSTer on my living room TV and the audio is fine.
The splitter could also be involved because now I remember that my SNES mini would not boot when connected to this splitter.

I re-recorded the sample with the MiSTer attached to my TV.

As a bonus, since it was there, I also recorded the same sample with my PAL Mega Drive 1 (HD) 60Hz modded (but I didn't change the crystal so the speed is not 100% accurate).

I'll attach the files here.

P.S. Keep in mind that they're coming from two different TVs, the Mega Drive is connected to an old little CRT.

What splitter is that specifically? Might help for other users to know.

aberu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:44 pm What splitter is that specifically? Might help for other users to know.

It's a generic one, it doesn't have a name or brand, here it is: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B01MSJS8HQ/

What is vsync_adjust set to, in the init file ?
Some TVs are sensitive to sync frequency, and even though the video appears fine, the sound can be messed up.

dshadoff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:02 am What is vsync_adjust set to, in the init file ?
Some TVs are sensitive to sync frequency, and even though the video appears fine, the sound can be messed up.

I don't have any init, the only text file I can see on the root of the SD card is "MiSTer_example.ini".
However, on the MiSTer's main menu (under misc. options>Information) I've got this values:

529x240 15.68KHz 59.8MHz
1280x720 74.25Mhz 60Mhz

EDIT: in the "MiSTer_example.ini" vsync_adjust is set like this: "vsync_adjust=0", does this file count or do I have to make a MiSTer.ini?

Ignore the "MiSTer_example.ini". You already have "mister.ini" in the root of your SD card (media/fat/), that's the file @dshadoff meant. In there are all the settings governing MiSTer. Try changing the value of "vsync_adjust=" to 1 or 2 from 0. "0" is used for lowest latency, but some displays have problems with it and setting "1" or "2" might help.

You can read about it and other the mister.ini settings here: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... tion-Files

akeley wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:40 am Ignore the "MiSTer_example.ini". You already have "mister.ini" in the root of your SD card (media/fat/), that's the file @dshadoff meant. In there are all the settings governing MiSTer. Try changing the value of "vsync_adjust=" to 1 or 2 from 0. "0" is used for lowest latency, but some displays have problems with it and setting "1" or "2" might help.

You can read about it and other the mister.ini settings here: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... tion-Files

You have it exactly reversed 2 is the lowest latency

vsync_adjust

Sets the vsync buffer mode for HDMI output. This setting does not affect direct video or analog output from the IO board.

Some HDMI displays can accept somewhat non-standard signals, allowing for lower display latency with MiSTer. It is recommended that you start with a setting of 0, and then try modes 1 and 2 to see if they work with your display or capture device. Different cores will have different results.

vsync_adjust=0 Default. Buffered 60hz HDMI video output, compatible with most HDMI devices.

vsync_adjust=1 Adjust output HDMI Vsync to match original Vsync. Lower latency than mode 0, but less compatible.

vsync_adjust=2 Low-latency mode, using the system's native pixel clock. This mode has the lowest latency, but it's the least-compatible.

Yeah, you're right...I suggested myself In that case changing the values is unlikely to help, but it won't hurt trying anyway.