MiSTer FPGA Forum

Hi Everyone,

Richard from Heber / Multisystem here.

This is an update on our Multisystem ‘console’ all-in-one I/O motherboard design we made for the MiSTer Project.
Some of you may be familiar with the developments we have done over the last few years, thank you for your support.
We are releasing the Multisystem as full open-source hardware, it’s up on GitHub right now - https://github.com/Heber-co-uk/Multisystem - GPL-3.0 License – Schematic source, PCB, Gerbers etc. all full and included.

Releasing more open source hardware was always the plan; we just wanted a chance to get to a break-even point on the initial development work so we can continue to invest even more time and resources into the project. I hope you can all find some use for the design and we look forward to seeing if anyone else also wants to manufacture this console form factor motherboard for the community, or an altered version if you so desire.

The source is all in Altium just like the ‘official’ Hardware I/O boards originally designed by Alexey Melnikov (Sorgelig) – Documentation and Gerber files are provided, but you may want to generate your own etc.

We would very much like the Multisystem to be seen as ‘official’ open-hardware for the MiSTer project, that's why this news is being posted here, but I also apreciate at this point it's not officially part of the MiSTer main project - it’s for the main MiSTer project coordinators to decide if they want to incorporate this release, but we fully support anyone that wants to use it for whatever reason they choose (following the GPL 3.0 license).

For us, this is only the start, we are still working very hard on lots new developments for MiSTer, including many more SNAC port adaptors, peripheral and USB I/O interface modules and lots of 3D printed enclosures that are also open source (CC-BY-SA) over on Printables (See links below) -

Multisystem V6 Enclosure - https://www.printables.com/model/505755 ... ng-console

CTRLDock Classic enclosure - https://www.printables.com/model/490466 ... -interface

Variations on the Multisystem case (this one for a PlayStation look) - https://www.printables.com/model/504458 ... ve-lid-psx

We have other active project developments for MiSTer based on a modular FPGA design, more updates on these as we progress. It’s a really exciting time to be developing for FPGA based hardware recreation and we hope you are all enjoying the wonderful work that the many FPGA core developers are providing for all of us.

Again, we want to thank the entire community for their feedback, encouragement and welcoming us as a hardware developer in the MiSTer project. We look forward to releasing many more projects and products as soon as we can.

If you have any questions, comments or feedback, please feel free to reply below or e-mail multisystem@heber.co.uk if you prefer.

Best Regards,

Richard – for an on behalf of Multisystem / Heber Ltd.

Hi Richard, nice Step to open the MMS for everyone.
I would like to know if this is the End of the MMS Stock, or will heber produce it further?

german_user wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:12 pm

Hi Richard, nice Step to open the MMS for everyone.
I would like to know if this is the End of the MMS Stock, or will heber produce it further?

Thank you,

Short answer - We actually still don’t know – when, how, if, cost, etc.

Longer answer – We don’t want to make people wait, (sorry about all the delays).
We ordered around 2500 sets of components during the recent few years, but it’s still quite tricky to get hold of some parts, for example the SCART connector, KYCON part declared obsolete in 2022, we did find an alternative in 2023, see image, both fit without the need for a PCB change.

But with the DE10-nano now finally becoming more available we also did not want to hold on any longer for other people to make progress and use of the designs we have made so far.
We currently don't have built finished stock of the Multisystem, we have hundreds, to thousands of some components, but also shortages still on others, so again no timescales, we need to build quite large batch sizes here in the UK, we just don’t want to keep people waiting forever when smaller batches may well be quite viable for others to manufacture, or with a few small changes alternative parts may be easier for people to source and use. The aim for us has always been to cover some costs so we can do more.

We are designing more cartridges for Multisystem, more interfaces and other modular designs for MiSTer that we have been working on for the past 12+ months.

We are basically doubling down on MiSTer / FPGA / product development this year, lots of projects ongoing and many more products planned for this and next year.
We always wanted to be at an open-source hardware point with what we have done so far for Multisystem, planning for future designs and much more…

I hope that helps? - Exciting times.

multisystem wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:54 pm

Thank you,

Short answer - We actually still don’t know – when, how, if, cost, etc.

Longer answer – We don’t want to make people wait, (sorry about all the delays).
We ordered around 2500 sets of components during the recent few years, but it’s still quite tricky to get hold of some parts, for example the SCART connector, KYCON part declared obsolete in 2022, we did find an alternative in 2023, see image, both fit without the need for a PCB change.

MMS_SCART_Changes_Jan2023.jpeg

But with the DE10-nano now finally becoming more available we also did not want to hold on any longer for other people to make progress and use of the designs we have made so far.
We currently don't have built finished stock of the Multisystem, we have hundreds, to thousands of some components, but also shortages still on others, so again no timescales, we need to build quite large batch sizes here in the UK, we just don’t want to keep people waiting forever when smaller batches may well be quite viable for others to manufacture, or with a few small changes alternative parts may be easier for people to source and use. The aim for us has always been to cover some costs so we can do more.

We are designing more cartridges for Multisystem, more interfaces and other modular designs for MiSTer that we have been working on for the past 12+ months.

We are basically doubling down on MiSTer / FPGA / product development this year, lots of projects ongoing and many more products planned for this and next year.
We always wanted to be at an open-source hardware point with what we have done so far for Multisystem, planning for future designs and much more…

I hope that helps? - Exciting times.

This seems like great news! (Aside from the conponent shortages of course). I applaud and thank you guys for opening the design.

Very curious to hear about more addons and expansions coming to the platform! Any sneak peeks or vague details you can share?

I may have missed this somewhere but what are the differences between v5 and v6?

cursedverses wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 11:04 pm

I may have missed this somewhere but what are the differences between v5 and v6?

Nothing that has any impact on compatibility, V5 & V6 parts are interchangeable for the Multisystem enclosure.

The V6x has a lot of small tweaks for more optimised 3D printing, especially if you are running a print farm. it's really just a lot of little improvements learned from printing a lot of them.

Is there any way we could get a BOM with Manufacturer Part Numbers included? I've been working on making my own since you released the project as open source but I am not an engineer and I can't infer the exact required component specifications from the surrounding components. Some things are obvious and self explanatory like basic resistors/capacitors but others I think would require the Manufacturer Part Number or some decent electronics knowledge. Also I've noticed some things aren't available in the US, but that's my problem to figure out... Love the project and thank you for creating it

Idea for a future V6.x or V7: go back to a 40mm fan. I recall the move away from the Noctua was because of availability, but they seem to be readily available again. I've got the fan that came w/ the V5 installed correctly, and I'm still not happy w/ the noise, even at 3.3V.

Think the most changes was done, to print the the cases faster and easier. But the Designs are also open, you can print the old Design self or from a company.

rezendes wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 1:00 am

Is there any way we could get a BOM with Manufacturer Part Numbers included? I've been working on making my own since you released the project as open source but I am not an engineer and I can't infer the exact required component specifications from the surrounding components. Some things are obvious and self explanatory like basic resistors/capacitors but others I think would require the Manufacturer Part Number or some decent electronics knowledge. Also I've noticed some things aren't available in the US, but that's my problem to figure out... Love the project and thank you for creating it

Check PCBWay, Layout und BOM was shared there. To see BOM u must be registered.

german_user wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 8:48 pm

Check PCBWay, Layout und BOM was shared there. To see BOM u must be registered.

Thanks for the suggestion. I just checked the BOM listed on PCBWay and it's the exact same one listed on the Github page, both missing manufacturer part numbers.

Ok, than perhaps can Richard help with this.

rezendes wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 1:00 am

Is there any way we could get a BOM with Manufacturer Part Numbers included? I've been working on making my own since you released the project as open source but I am not an engineer and I can't infer the exact required component specifications from the surrounding components. Some things are obvious and self explanatory like basic resistors/capacitors but others I think would require the Manufacturer Part Number or some decent electronics knowledge. Also I've noticed some things aren't available in the US, but that's my problem to figure out... Love the project and thank you for creating it

I've been working on this as well. I've been putting part numbers into my list and I've got 10 that I'm certain are correct based on the codes provided in Richard's list, another 11 that I'm virtually certain are correct, but then there's lots where I need to confirm the specs and a few that I don't have a clue about.

How have you made a determination on what max voltage and power rating to use for the resistors? I chose a 1% tolerance but then there's a lot of choice on max voltage, and I'm also not a trained engineer. Similar issue with the capacitors. One is listed as 10V but what about the others?

I have a mostly completed spreadsheet with part numbers for potential parts, but also a lot of questions!

emiliom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 5:56 pm

I've been working on this as well. I've been putting part numbers into my list and I've got 10 that I'm certain are correct based on the codes provided in Richard's list, another 11 that I'm virtually certain are correct, but then there's lots where I need to confirm the specs and a few that I don't have a clue about.

How have you made a determination on what max voltage and power rating to use for the resistors? I chose a 1% tolerance but then there's a lot of choice on max voltage, and I'm also not a trained engineer. Similar issue with the capacitors. One is listed as 10V but what about the others?

I have a mostly completed spreadsheet with part numbers for potential parts, but also a lot of questions!

I'm in a similar situation just trying my best to piece it all together, hoping for a list of real part numbers so I can complete the project. I have my PCBs in already and they look perfect.

rezendes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 10:33 pm

I'm in a similar situation just trying my best to piece it all together, hoping for a list of real part numbers so I can complete the project. I have my PCBs in already and they look perfect.

Where did you get your PCBs from?

The Megadrive inspired top lid is now up on Printables if anyone would like to 3D print / use / sell it - feel free -

https://www.printables.com/model/519651 ... gadrive-v2

Have Fun

Richard.

emiliom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 11:26 pm

Where did you get your PCBs from?

jlcpcb. I tried using pcbway first but they wanted a lot of information to be filled out before the next step where I could verify things, just seemed easier for me on jlcpcb.

rezendes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:00 pm

emiliom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 11:26 pm

Where did you get your PCBs from?

jlcpcb. I tried using pcbway first but they wanted a lot of information to be filled out before the next step where I could verify things, just seemed easier for me on jlcpcb.

That’s who I was looking at. Just to get the minimum number of boards PCBWay wanted nearly $200. JLCPCB are a third of the price, including shipping and import duties! You happy with the quality of the boards?

rezendes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:00 pm

emiliom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 11:26 pm

Where did you get your PCBs from?

jlcpcb. I tried using pcbway first but they wanted a lot of information to be filled out before the next step where I could verify things, just seemed easier for me on jlcpcb.

so i put in the gerber files for the mister in jlc, is there any other settings do i need to adjust or leave it as it is and order?

It looks like we will need a smart engineer to identify specific compatible component part number options that might be available to the average consumer from places like mouser / digikey in order to complete our projects. This is going to freeze my progress until such a person comes along.

rezendes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 4:25 pm

It looks like we will need a smart engineer to identify specific compatible component part number options that might be available to the average consumer from places like mouser / digikey in order to complete our projects. This is going to freeze my progress until such a person comes along.

Yep. I’m in the same boat.

ZungYouse56 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:51 pm

so i put in the gerber files for the mister in jlc, is there any other settings do i need to adjust or leave it as it is and order?

As far as just the board goes I don’t believe you have to make any other changes. You can change the board colour if you like. My DE-10 Nano is blue, so I though I might have my MiSTer board made blue as well.

emiliom wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:11 am

ZungYouse56 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:51 pm

so i put in the gerber files for the mister in jlc, is there any other settings do i need to adjust or leave it as it is and order?

As far as just the board goes I don’t believe you have to make any other changes. You can change the board colour if you like. My DE-10 Nano is blue, so I though I might have my MiSTer board made blue as well.

ok thanks for the response

rezendes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:00 pm

emiliom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 11:26 pm

Where did you get your PCBs from?

jlcpcb. I tried using pcbway first but they wanted a lot of information to be filled out before the next step where I could verify things, just seemed easier for me on jlcpcb.

Did you have any issues with JLCPCB? I submitted the files but they've come back to me with this:

"the ratio of copper pour on both top and bottom trace layer are less than 30%, and clearance bettwen traces are less than 0.127mm, it's out of our production capability as it has high risk of short circuit during production. Shall we add some copper pour on empty areas to make the ratio of copper pour reach 30%, and keep 0.5mm spacing between copper pour and traces"

emiliom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 12:56 pm

Did you have any issues with JLCPCB? I submitted the files but they've come back to me with this:

"the ratio of copper pour on both top and bottom trace layer are less than 30%, and clearance bettwen traces are less than 0.127mm, it's out of our production capability as it has high risk of short circuit during production. Shall we add some copper pour on empty areas to make the ratio of copper pour reach 30%, and keep 0.5mm spacing between copper pour and traces"

Nope, you must have changed something or used the wrong file because I just loaded the file and confirmed a few options like number of Layers and FR-4 and I was only concerned because the resulting renders did Not show the physical holes around the hdmi and ram board cutouts. I chose the option to confirm the final result before manufacture and it looked correct at that point so I went ahead and did it. Here are my order details.

rezendes wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 7:04 am

emiliom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 12:56 pm

Did you have any issues with JLCPCB? I submitted the files but they've come back to me with this:

"the ratio of copper pour on both top and bottom trace layer are less than 30%, and clearance bettwen traces are less than 0.127mm, it's out of our production capability as it has high risk of short circuit during production. Shall we add some copper pour on empty areas to make the ratio of copper pour reach 30%, and keep 0.5mm spacing between copper pour and traces"

Nope, you must have changed something or used the wrong file because I just loaded the file and confirmed a few options like number of Layers and FR-4 and I was only concerned because the resulting renders did Not show the physical holes around the hdmi and ram board cutouts. I chose the option to confirm the final result before manufacture and it looked correct at that point so I went ahead and did it. Here are my order details.

I didn't make any changes other than for the board to be blue instead of green. My gerber file is the same, 23005-3_Y13, and I didn't need to confirm the base material or number of layers as it was already set to FR-4 and 4 layer. When I check my product details though my Via Covering is 'Tented' and the Surface Finish is 'HASL', but I never touched these settings. Did you change yours?

I remember changing something important that was included in the readme/documentation files somewhere in the github.

EDIT

I think it was the ENIG finish from the readme "Material to be 1.6mm FR4 4-layer PCB lead-free (RoHS compliant) with an Electroless Nickel Immersion (ENIG) finish.
Green solder resist on both sides including vias."

rezendes wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 7:32 pm

I remember changing something important that was included in the readme/documentation files somewhere in the github.

EDIT

I think it was the ENIG finish from the readme "Material to be 1.6mm FR4 4-layer PCB lead-free (RoHS compliant) with an Electroless Nickel Immersion (ENIG) finish.
Green solder resist on both sides including vias."

Yeah I saw that. The solder resist is fine. I chose blue, but I checked and there's no performance difference between colour, it's purely aesthetic.
The finish is my bad. I didn't see that it had to be ENIG finish.

But they are still saying to me those don't fix my problem, so I don't know what the issue is.

anyone having any luck with finding the parts?

ZungYouse56 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 12:00 pm

anyone having any luck with finding the parts?

Only the ones where the part codes are listed on the spreadsheet. The resistors and capacitors I've basically guessed at the specs.
The really tough things are the connectors and buttons. I've been trawling through pictures on component websites to try and match them but not a lot of luck, especially with the front push buttons and the vertical HDMI connectors. I'm waiting for my boards to arrive so that I can measure the pin distances and then maybe try and match things up by looking at the datasheets, but I think it's going to be a long job.

The other thing that's a real bugger is the 12MHz crystal. Great, I know it's a 12MHz crystal but without knowing the correct Load Capacitance and max ESR we're a bit stuffed. I spent a lot of time talking to ChatGPT about this - it's actually turned out to be useful for once! Seems that the most common LCs for a 12MHz crystal are 18pF & 20pF, so I'm thinking of buying a couple of each with different ESR values and seeing if they work out. I'm actually in touch with someone at Terminus who make the FE2.1 chip to try and find out what the LC and ESR values are (as the crystal connects to pins 22 and 23 on the chip), so if I get that info I'll post it here.

Problem is if there's more than one wrong component when it eventually gets put together, how you going to know which one/s is/are wrong?