MiSTer FPGA Forum

I have ultimate mister case, and standard (analog) io so I would have to do away with analog io, and order a 32mb card to go with my 128mb if I want MK core when that comes out ostensibly in October.

I really want MK core but I dunno if its worth the fuss, I think id have to:
find a new case
hope there's an s-video direct video dongle since my CRT only takes s-video and not component/RGB and set aside my Antonio villena dongle

hmmm decisions

im grateful for devs work, but I hate this sudden fork in the road when I thought my set up was complete

We're seeing more options opening up for s-video direct-video. I think that can be overcome if its your only hang-up.

That said there's a bunch of great MK ports on other cores (e.g. MK Trilogy on playstions, Arcade Edition hack on 32x), and I'm waiting to see how MARS shakes out rather than buying half a new Mister setup. But I'm not really an MK head anyway, need to see more dual ram cores to be convinced.

Of course not. Mortal Kombat? No thanks. What’s with the dual ram hysteria? The Mister community is having a collective stroke it feels like.

I'm also confused by the dual SDRAM "requirements" of late... I've only done small core tweaks to try and understand how this all works - I'm no dev. I understand the dual SDRAM is required for bandwidth, however we have geniuses like FPGAzumSpass and Jotego who can tinker and make everything work on single SDRAM... from the outside, as a consumer primarily, the new cores requiring dual SDRAM seems a likely difference in dev skill or determination (make it work in the easiest way possible and move on to the next, or take on the challenge and take the time to optimize and squish!).

I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if there really truly is no way to make these cores work on single SDRAM - but it's crazy to see something like the N64 making due on single SDRAM (for now?), but Midway Y & T can't... I've gotta be missing something, and I hope someone smarter than me can fill me in.

Can we stop with attacking Devs over Dual Ram.

As we advance into more modern eras the demands for memory bandwidth increase. You simply cant say A didnt need it so Y shouldnt. No dev is part of a secret plan to sell Ram.

CRT output can be had at a higher colour depth via the HDMI output of the DE10 via a Dongle, granted these are a bit of a nightmare to find a brand that works but no one is being forced to give up CRT output because of Dual Ram.

Yes you may need a new case. Since most of the cases were Modular thats normally just asking the seller to supply a Digital back plate. If the case hasnt been designed this way then yes a new case would be required.

FPGA64 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:32 am

Can we stop with attacking Devs over Dual Ram.

As we advance into more modern eras the demands for memory bandwidth increase. You simply cant say A didnt need it so Y shouldnt. No dev is part of a secret plan to sell Ram.

CRT output can be had at a higher colour depth via the HDMI output of the DE10 via a Dongle, granted these are a bit of a nightmare to find a brand that works but no one is being forced to give up CRT output because of Dual Ram.

Yes you may need a new case. Since most of the cases were Modular thats normally just asking the seller to supply a Digital back plate. If the case hasnt been designed this way then yes a new case would be required.

I just think people are confused why a system from 1988 needs dual SDram, when a system from the 90s deemed impossible at one point partly due to complex and high bandwidth memory requirements now has a working and playable beta in single SDram

We also have a working arcade core from a similar complex arcade system using the next gen TI processor in single SDram

You then have the dev using AI Chatbots to help write code and we have seen a ludicrous attitude from another dev involved in this forum

It will be comforting when another dev can look at the code to see if there is a genuine reason for dual SDram or it's just being used as a workaround for development issues or for some other underhand reason

I really don't see what is wrong with questioning especially with the baggage these cores come with at present and a clear outlier

Yes, RetroCastle already is working on his own dual ram setup. And i have already a Misteraddons Dual RAM as my main MiSTer.

The analogue out is cool but honestly i didn't use it at all, just tested. I don't have any CRT and my monitors work with HDMI or DVI.

And besides SF2 is MK and MK2 my child love when in comes to arcade games, so i need to have the OG arcade core asap

No ..

Armakuni wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:09 am

FPGA64 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:32 am

Can we stop with attacking Devs over Dual Ram.

As we advance into more modern eras the demands for memory bandwidth increase. You simply cant say A didnt need it so Y shouldnt. No dev is part of a secret plan to sell Ram.

CRT output can be had at a higher colour depth via the HDMI output of the DE10 via a Dongle, granted these are a bit of a nightmare to find a brand that works but no one is being forced to give up CRT output because of Dual Ram.

Yes you may need a new case. Since most of the cases were Modular thats normally just asking the seller to supply a Digital back plate. If the case hasnt been designed this way then yes a new case would be required.

I just think people are confused why a system from 1988 needs dual SDram, when a system from the 90s deemed impossible at one point partly due to complex and high bandwidth memory requirements now has a working and playable beta in single SDram

We also have a working arcade core from a similar complex arcade system using the next gen TI processor in single SDram

You then have the dev using AI Chatbots to help write code and we have seen a ludicrous attitude from another dev involved in this forum

It will be comforting when another dev can look at the code to see if there is a genuine reason for dual SDram or it's just being used as a workaround for development issues or for some other underhand reason

I really don't see what is wrong with questioning especially with the baggage these cores come with at present and a clear outlier

The trouble is you are comparing Apples with Oranges.

I am not a Dev so cant comment on if Narc etc could be done single ram, but I doubt that the developer just went you know what I fancy doing something else let me just hack this out as quickly as I can.

if you read Pramod's Twitter (X) you will see he tried and the only way he could manage it was with dual ram.

FPGA64 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:34 am

Armakuni wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:09 am

FPGA64 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:32 am

Can we stop with attacking Devs over Dual Ram.

As we advance into more modern eras the demands for memory bandwidth increase. You simply cant say A didnt need it so Y shouldnt. No dev is part of a secret plan to sell Ram.

CRT output can be had at a higher colour depth via the HDMI output of the DE10 via a Dongle, granted these are a bit of a nightmare to find a brand that works but no one is being forced to give up CRT output because of Dual Ram.

Yes you may need a new case. Since most of the cases were Modular thats normally just asking the seller to supply a Digital back plate. If the case hasnt been designed this way then yes a new case would be required.

I just think people are confused why a system from 1988 needs dual SDram, when a system from the 90s deemed impossible at one point partly due to complex and high bandwidth memory requirements now has a working and playable beta in single SDram

We also have a working arcade core from a similar complex arcade system using the next gen TI processor in single SDram

You then have the dev using AI Chatbots to help write code and we have seen a ludicrous attitude from another dev involved in this forum

It will be comforting when another dev can look at the code to see if there is a genuine reason for dual SDram or it's just being used as a workaround for development issues or for some other underhand reason

I really don't see what is wrong with questioning especially with the baggage these cores come with at present and a clear outlier

The trouble is you are comparing Apples with Oranges.

I am not a Dev so cant comment on if Narc etc could be done single ram, but I doubt that the developer just went you know what I fancy doing something else let me just hack this out as quickly as I can.

if you read Pramod's Twitter (X) you will see he tried and the only way he could manage it was with dual ram.

I have been following his development hence why I stated about using AI chatbots to write code which stands out like a sore thumb to me

Not all developers have the same experience or skill set and we have seen other cores in the past taken over and/or rewritten by other Devs
NARC is only medium res digitised sprite and bitmap game too

I am also not implying it's a hack to get it done quick, more to overcome issues he can't solve

Like I said once the code is published we might get a better picture, that is the bonus of a open source project

My MiSTer is hooked up to 3 CRT’TV’s (one horizontal, two vertical) plus a VGA monitor and an LCD screen via HDMI) for when I record gameplay footage.

So no, I’ll be sticking to single RAM. There’s enough cores that work perfectly fine with my set up to keep me happy for many years to come. I can always play Narc & Mortal Kombat elsewhere. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to be able to play these on my MiSTer but it’s not the end of the world if I can’t.

just a silly dumb question but is 128meg the limit for a single memory stick?

bazza_12 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:43 am

just a silly dumb question but is 128meg the limit for a single memory stick?

viewtopic.php?t=3440

bazza_12 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:43 am

just a silly dumb question but is 128meg the limit for a single memory stick?

The reason for dual ram isnt size. Its to allow 2 read/writes to occur at the same time. Ideally you would use the Bram on the FPGA but there is very little of this so the DDR3 memory is used. DDR3 being much slower than Bram

So in this case size doesnt matter its all about providing bandwidth

many thanks to Xbytez and FPGA64 for those replies

I couldn't care less about Mortal Kombat, especially enough to ditch my analogue board. Also, to add, using HDMI to a CRT adds a small level of saturation to the image, that original hardware didn't have. Tested, side-by-side, with original hardware, on the same CRTs, the HDMI output has higher saturation making the image slightly more cartoon - if that makes sense.
Lastly, this rush to get the newest, makes no sense. We have older cores still with missing features that original hardware always had. We have tons of missing arcade cores that really need preserving - certainly more so than an N64. Games such as Astro Blaster - a real classic, with that memorable speech, Astro Fighter, Buck Rogers, just to name a couple off hand.

Not at the moment. Mortal Kombat and Narc are not precisely my two favourite games and CRT analog output for me is a must.

can't speak for anyone else but from where I'm coming from:
1- not attacking any devs. grateful for any and all efforts. Even ones that don't pan out into deliverables.
2- not questioning anyone's skills. particularly not atrac17's.. and I don't mean to make this an atrac17 vs Jotego type discussion either. Don't see the point and have no idea the ramifications of what's involved to get it working on MiSter. Also think it's silly to compare 'well 64 can do it on one' armchair reverse engineer type stuff, considering that core, while impressive, is still in a very early phase. There are new milestones that have been hit in just the past days from a cursory glance, but it aint over until the fat lady sings.
3- not having any sort of stroke lol, I have a lot of console MK ports already, including the ps3 collection which is superb and one of the best, but would I like a near-100% cycle accurate version of the iconic title? Sure would.

...I think from re-configuring everything for one title is probably a fool's errand in the end, even if it's a big one from my childhood.

I forget easily how long this current set up I have took to piece meal, since it wasn't something I hunkered down for all at once and upgraded as I went. Started with de10-nano (before price surges a couple years later, for $110 or whatever it was during pandemic) and an open Etsy wood case and 128m and external usb hub as was off to the races.

Over slowly upgraded, adding analog io + Antonio Vilena s-video adapter to use with my CRT.
Then mister ultimate case and internal powered usb hub combo.
Then most recently a usb-wifi stick off amazon.

Recently mister has been tethered to my OLED 4k hdtv again, but I love the versatility when I feel like getting a more 'authentic' experience.

Plus doing nothing additional, costs me $0 / 0 min of time. And that is always attractive

-

All that said, I find this an interesting discussion and hope to see it continue amicably!

Yes for sure, I have an old 32MB module lying around so why not?

Mortal Kombat, Smash TV and Total Carnage are great games (that I spent a lot of quarters on in my university pub). I'll be happy to see them on MiSTer.

Nopes, I'll stay with the analog board and regular memory bandwidth. Perhaps one day it'll make more sense to change or more likely buy a second MiSTer FPGA.

lagerfeldt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:16 pm

Nopes, I'll stay with the analog board and regular memory bandwidth. Perhaps one day it'll make more sense to change or more likely buy a second MiSTer FPGA.

Exactly this. I love the multisystem I put my DE-10 into. If you're not going to accomodate those of us that have bought a fixed setup (aka the setup that works with everything else) well, enjoy carving a niche into a niche...

cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:32 pm

lagerfeldt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:16 pm

Nopes, I'll stay with the analog board and regular memory bandwidth. Perhaps one day it'll make more sense to change or more likely buy a second MiSTer FPGA.

Exactly this. I love the multisystem I put my DE-10 into. If you're not going to accomodate those of us that have bought a fixed setup (aka the setup that works with everything else) well, enjoy carving a niche into a niche...

Well you could argue you went off into a niche when you didnt use the official stack. Its just unfortunate that the derrivative builds cant handle dual ram.

Nevertheless that is the beauty of MiSTer. You can get whatever you want. And it is in no ones power or in no one's right to criticize what the other user wants it for. Just enjoy your misters

No.
I even have the slot free as my setup was always meant for Directvideo.
But buying another ram stick just for one or two arcade cores.. no thanks.
I'll consider the dual ram setup only if needed for console cores. Not for just one game.

LoL no way despite already using Direct Video

FPGA64 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:38 pm

cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:32 pm

lagerfeldt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:16 pm

Nopes, I'll stay with the analog board and regular memory bandwidth. Perhaps one day it'll make more sense to change or more likely buy a second MiSTer FPGA.

Exactly this. I love the multisystem I put my DE-10 into. If you're not going to accomodate those of us that have bought a fixed setup (aka the setup that works with everything else) well, enjoy carving a niche into a niche...

Well you could argue you went off into a niche when you didnt use the official stack. Its just unfortunate that the derrivative builds cant handle dual ram.

It's not really that derivative of what the default stack has been all this time - USB hub, DE10, Analog/Digital addon.

It'd be interesting to see just how much of the community runs a dual-ram stack and, after spending considerable money on obtaining the stack, would be willing to break it down for another RAM stick. How do you post a poll on here anyway?!?

cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:32 pm

If you're not going to accomodate those of us that have bought a fixed setup

Who is the "you're" you are referring to? Who's responsibility is it to accommodate you?

cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:32 pm

enjoy carving a niche into a niche...

I find that a bit of a strange statement, developers are releasing several iconic games on a new core that is entirely free of charge to whoever is interested. Not to mention this is of benefit to all in terms of furthering hardware preservation. Whether it ends up being "niche" or not isn't particularly relevant; the fact that the work will be released and available to the public is what is important here.

Lightwave wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 1:37 pm

cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:32 pm

If you're not going to accomodate those of us that have bought a fixed setup

Who is the "you're" you are referring to? Who's responsibility is it to accommodate you?

cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:32 pm

enjoy carving a niche into a niche...

I find that a bit of a strange statement, developers are releasing several iconic games on a new core that is entirely free of charge to whoever is interested. Not to mention this is of benefit to all in terms of furthering hardware preservation. Whether it ends up being "niche" or not isn't particularly relevant; the fact that the work will be released and available to the public is what is important here.

The "you're" can be whoever makes a decision to write a core with dual ram only.

Not really. We're not the largest of communities here, and it's common sense that where people have invested a fair proportion of money into building a system to what seems to be its most popular configuration, telling those that your configuration is effectively wrong and you'll miss out isn't exactly going to make any friends, is it?

Also, what is going on in this forum the last few days. Is there something in the water. Everyone seems to be rather hot-headed over N64 core releases, dual ram. Can we all just calm down and state cases rather than dash in and go to tear others apart?

Well Initially I had a 128mb Analog. When Dual ram was suggested for the PSX. I got another 128mb stick, a New Digital IO board and some replacement parts for the case. If I ever want CRT I will do so via the HDMI.

FPGA64 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 1:47 pm

Well Initially I had a 128mb Analog. When Dual ram was suggested for the PSX. I got another 128mb stick, a New Digital IO board and some replacement parts for the case. If I ever want CRT I will do so via the HDMI.

That's fair enough, that's what works for you

I liked the MMS for having better port organisation (at the back or the front and not all over).