MiSTer FPGA Forum

Analogue have announced a new FPGA n64 clone console

https://www.analogue.co/3d

I know its not mister related but thought some people may be interested in it.

The 8bitdo gamepad is really interesting.

That's nuts that they're actually attempting an FPGA N64!

I'd be very interested to see what hardware they're using inside this thing; there's no way it's running on the same Cyclone V that they've been using before, since the DE10 nano is only just barely able to handle Robert's in-progress N64 core. No doubt it's gonna cost a fortune, given the hardware it's gonna have to be packing under the hood to make this work.

Either way, very exciting stuff!

2. Analogue 3D does not play copyrighted rom files, it plays legacy game cartridges via the cartridge slot

They will block flashcarts?

3. Analogue 3D is not designed using software emulation. It is designed using a specialty hardware chip called an FPGA, which operates on a transistor level implementation of its functionality.

Dang. Looking at my wallet and its limitations, it now seems I have to choose between this and the Retrotink 4K I was coveting...

akeley wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:01 pm

They will block flashcarts?

No, not intentionally - they haven't intentionally done that before. It would destroy their market.

However, they have created consoles where the cartridge bus timing was off-spec causing issues for Everdrives on one of their products.
Everdrive updated their product after that, but I think it had to be dealt with by a hardware revision (or non-user-upgradable boot firmware fix).

Of course, Everdrive could not have anticipated that, but Analogue could have.

Wondering if there's any relation between this hardware and what is powering MARS FPGA. Which could make this quite expensive.

More details... https://www.pastemagazine.com/games/ana ... intendo-64

● Anything that connects to the N64 via its cartridge expansion slot (cartridge pak, rumble pak, transfer pak, or even the very rare Bio-Sensor that came with Tetris 64 in Japan) will work with Analogue 3D, so long as players connect an original N64 gamepad to the system. Modern gamepad manufacturer 8BitDo is creating a wireless N64-styled controller in honor of the Analogue 3D, but it does not appear to include its own cartridge expansion slot.

● In the event that you need to save with a cartridge pak but don’t have one, Taber says that Analogue 3D will have your back in the form of “save states.” This computationally expensive feature isn’t always a given on FPGA systems, so it will be interesting to see how it works here.

● The relatively rare 64DD add-on, exclusive to Japan, will not natively connect to Analogue 3D. Taber suggests that “community developed” connection options will work instead.

● Analogue 3D will include a ton of gamepad options. Four original N64 controllers can connect via the system’s four built-in ports. On top of that, the system will include two USB Type-A ports and will support four additional wireless controllers via either Bluetooth or 2.4 GHz wireless. “Wireless controller support will be everything Analogue Dock supports and more,” Taber says.

● Select system-level visual effects can be disabled on a menu level if users would like, particularly the N64’s infamous anti-aliasing glaze.

● By default, Analogue 3D will run N64 games at their native speeds, complete with frame rate slowdowns (we’re looking at you, Goldeneye 007 four-player split-screen). Taber suggests that optional toggles will enable “overclocking, running smoother, eliminating native frame dips,” and other performance-specific tweaks.

● The N64’s optional 4MB RAM “expansion pak” will be built into Analogue 3D and enabled by default. Users can go into a menu to disable the expansion pak if they want to disable its features in select games.

● Analogue 3D will support the same firmware-update process as prior Analogue systems, via a microSD port. Taber suggests that “some new methods of updating” will be announced at a later date. (Analogue has never formally announced “jailbreak” support for its older systems, which have allowed system owners to load ROM files via microSD cards instead of physical cartridges to play games, but each has eventually received a jailbreak of some kind.)

● Taber says the Analogue 3D will only support “pure N64 and the original legacy ecosystem surrounding it, nothing else.” It will not include any fork of the “openFPGA” system found on Analogue Pocket.

This thing sounds like a dream come true... and no doubt with a price to match! MiSTer won't be able to offer features like Save States, Transfer Pak support or Overclocking, so this thing has to be packing FPGA hardware above what the DE10 Nano can offer... something like...

FoxbatStargazer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:49 pm

Wondering if there's any relation between this hardware and what is powering MARS FPGA. Which could make this quite expensive.

... the Efinix Ti180. I bet it's the exact same chip that MARS is gonna be using... meaning that it's gonna cost a pretty penny!

dcubed wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:35 pm

MiSTer won't be able to offer features like Save States, Transfer Pak support or Overclocking,

I wouldn't bet on that.

Wouldn't surprise me is in a year of so, Analogue's NEXT product is a 4K model of the PS1. Well, next NEW console re-imagining, anyway. Before that, you KNOW the limited editions of the N64 will have the now established funtastic Pocket colors. I look forward to seeing the shell of this thing.

I wish they were making a Sega Saturn FPGA instead since I don't think we'll see a functional Mister Saturn Core anytime soon.(maybe never)
But I can see why they went with N64.it's a much more popular system.
it's not for me,because most of N64's better games are remastered and available on better systems.
They could even go for a Saturn+Dreamcast FPGA combo that would have been awesome!

What are you talking about? Excepting a handful of games, Saturn is working fantastic right now (well, except for CHD in my case, but still)!

I was surprised that it will output 4k.

i think this is a case of Analogue announcing lots of potentials for a device, and then working feaverishly on making it a reality later.

however, if this is openFPGA, and people get a bunch of MiSTer cores ported over, im sure alot of folks would buy the analogue 3D as a way to have a consolized MiSTer that outputs in 4K, with 4 controller ports ready to go!

ive never been a huge fan of N64, but this is cool for people who dont have a MiSTer and were holding off on getting one.
im doubtful this will be in peoples hands anytime soon tho. they said 2024, but im guessing people wont see these until very late 2024 or even 2025. and it will cost a pretty penny

blacklistedcard wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:13 am

I was surprised that it will output 4k.

Well, that is the easiest feature.

PikWik wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:03 am

if this is openFPGA, and people get a bunch of MiSTer cores ported over

It won't be supported, according to the small print (I missed it at first). Same as what was said for the Duo.

16Bittt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 11:50 pm

I wish they were making a Sega Saturn FPGA instead since I don't think we'll see a functional Mister Saturn Core anytime soon.(maybe never)
But I can see why they went with N64.it's a much more popular system.
it's not for me,because most of N64's better games are remastered and available on better systems.
They could even go for a Saturn+Dreamcast FPGA combo that would have been awesome!

Ummmm....

??

The Saturn core is now in main and pretty stable (basically beta).

Anyone else think the naming scheme is odd?

'Mega SG' for Mega Drive
'Super NT' for Super Nintendo
... even NEC had an actual DUO name in a product.

'Pocket' made sense instead of a name with 'GB' in it [example: The 'AGB'] since it supports multiple systems...
The 'Analogue 3D' [maybe will be nicknamed 'A3D'?] as a product name seems [to me] an odd choice as opposed to 'Analogue 64', no?

...WHICH, makes me wonder if this system is intending to do other 3D systems...

I get it, Nintendo are known for lawsuits so it may be an 'updated for 2023' safeguard. Also 4 controller ports for N64 seems like a full on 64 intention with teaser advertising promoting the same. Still, there is wireless controller support which likely means other controller types will be supported [at least 8bitDO].

The 4k aspect and likely larger FPGA than a DE10 Nano must bring costs up and ultimate price for the end user. In 2024 and beyond, is it a waste of a FPGA [and 4k] for ONE system? As a company, they MUST know their competition with the MiSTer, flashcarts, Retrotink4K and upcoming MARS; Sure, the '3D' will play N64 carts, but hopefully, this system will:

1. Jailbreak to play 64DD and Aleck64 Arcade titles.
2. At a minimum play the same unofficial jailbreak legacy cores from the NT mini Noir/Pocket.
3. Their NES, SNES, and Sega/Coleco cores would [unofficially] sweeten the deal
4. At a maximum, interface with the DUO like a Voltron combiner robot with the promise of cart adapters for Sega/Nintendo consoles and release new CD cores to make this basically a 'MiSTer/MARS' competitor that plays Carts and CDs from many many systems. [Some have speculated that the 8bitDO SNK Neo Geo controllers may indicate the upcoming DUO may do more than play the NEC library... remains to be seen.]

Otherwise, with great respect, thanks and admiration for Kevtris, it is somewhat bittersweet for me to think the MARS project may beat his original 'Zimba 3000' vision in the race. I love my Mega SG, Super NT and Pocket, but play the MiSTer more... even over my OG hardware for various consoles.

Just fyi this is definitely only going to be n64, they have said it won’t support open fpga. For me that makes it a definite miss. I’m not that fussed about 4k as I’d rather play on a crt monitor. The pad however I am super interested in for my mister.

FoxbatStargazer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:49 pm

Wondering if there's any relation between this hardware and what is powering MARS FPGA. Which could make this quite expensive.

The Efinx Ti180 FPGA chip MARS is suppose to be using is not that expensive, have a look on Digikey or Mouser

Jahreeva wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:12 am

Just fyi this is definitely only going to be n64, they have said it won’t support open fpga. For me that makes it a definite miss. I’m not that fussed about 4k as I’d rather play on a crt monitor. The pad however I am super interested in for my mister.

They also never announced jailbreaking possibilities in the past, yet it's always been there. And this system will update its firmware via SD, like previous ones. I suspect they're just overly careful with their official messaging for plausible denial. At least I hope so, it would be the difference between getting it or passing it for me.

And I agree, one way or the other, I'm getting four of those pads for my MiSTer.

Hectic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:19 am

blacklistedcard wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:13 am

I was surprised that it will output 4k.

Well, that is the easiest feature.

I thought existing FPGA chips that are affordable did not have the power/bus speeds for 4k?

Upscalers are cheap enough. I'd be VERY surprised if it's processing at 4K.

Not just that, but depending on the tools being used, it is possible to have a different set of frequency constraints on a specific functional block than the remainder of the circuit.

Here's the controller image with contrast increased to make the left half visible.

rhester72 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 3:53 pm

Upscalers are cheap enough. I'd be VERY surprised if it's processing at 4K.

I too doubt it will process 4K. This would mean to design an entire new GPU that performs exactly the same way as the original GPU but does everything in a resolution roughly 100 times higher then the N64 resolution.
I doubt the Analogue team has the capabilities to develop such a chip (and I have serious doubts any FPGA on the market would be fast enough for such a design).

They also never announced jailbreaking possibilities in the past, yet it's always been there. And this system will update its firmware via SD, like previous ones. I suspect they're just overly careful with their official messaging for plausible denial. At least I hope so, it would be the difference between getting it or passing it for me.

And I agree, one way or the other, I'm getting four of those pads for my MiSTer.

can you play anything other than snes games on the super nt or anything other than genesis games on the mega sg?

JayRockets wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:12 pm

They also never announced jailbreaking possibilities in the past, yet it's always been there. And this system will update its firmware via SD, like previous ones. I suspect they're just overly careful with their official messaging for plausible denial. At least I hope so, it would be the difference between getting it or passing it for me.

And I agree, one way or the other, I'm getting four of those pads for my MiSTer.

can you play anything other than snes games on the super nt or anything other than genesis games on the mega sg?

Only if you plug in a Super Gameboy or Sega SMS adapter.

Only if you plug in a Super Gameboy or Sega SMS adapter.

so nobody should expect to be able to play anything but n64 on this thing. lots of people were expecting to play multiple systems on their super nt like the original nt, I know I was thinking of getting one when it came out for that reason. I'm glad I didnt pull the trigger (the scummy $40 shipping and handling instantly changed my mind) and when the mega sg was announced (basically a super nt in a new shell) I knew they wouldn't be adding new cores to any of their systems ever again.

JayRockets wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:22 am

Only if you plug in a Super Gameboy or Sega SMS adapter.

so nobody should expect to be able to play anything but n64 on this thing. lots of people were expecting to play multiple systems on their super nt like the original nt, I know I was thinking of getting one when it came out for that reason. I'm glad I didnt pull the trigger (the scummy $40 shipping and handling instantly changed my mind) and when the mega sg was announced (basically a super nt in a new shell) I knew they wouldn't be adding new cores to any of their systems ever again.

I own both the SuperNT and MegaSG and I really enjoy them. I have the sega CD player hooked up to the MegaSG which works great for my original cart and CD. My only problem is why create new consoles when they should concentrate on keeping some sort of stock. Not have a whole website where just about every product is out of stock.

Corporations are using the chip shortage as an excuse when it benefits them.