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Alice not syncing (only 30Hz)

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 6:32 pm
by HerrBerzerk

Hello,

I can't get the Alice Core to sync with my CRT-TV nor my CRT-VGA Monitor. It seems the core is defaulting to 30Hz and that's a problem for these CRTs.

Any idea, solution?

Thank you!


Re: Alice not syncing (only 30Hz)

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 7:01 pm
by akeley

Try this

Code: Select all

[AliceMC10]
direct_video=0  
vga_scaler=1 video_mode=320,8,32,24,240,4,3,16,6048 vscale_mode=0

Re: Alice not syncing (only 30Hz)

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2023 2:57 pm
by HerrBerzerk

Doesn't help unfortunately. This doesn't change the refresh rate from 30Hz to 60Hz. I also tried some other mode lines that did not change something for better. Also I'm not sure if it is possible at all to change the analog refresh rate with mode lines? Is it?


Re: Alice not syncing (only 30Hz)

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2023 3:13 pm
by akeley

It's a 15kHz modeline and works ok for me:

IMG-20231224-160243.jpg
IMG-20231224-160243.jpg (5.54 MiB) Viewed 374 times

One problem is maybe you're using Direct Video? In that case I don't think modelines will work unless you have an additional adapter (like UMSA). Also, some TVs are more or less sensitive, though, amusingly enough in my experience it's actually PVMs being more fussy.

You can also try my config, in case yours has some different setting.


Re: Alice not syncing (only 30Hz)

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2023 1:02 pm
by HerrBerzerk

If I remember correctly, the upper line 1276x490 is for the analog output and the lower one is for the hdmi output. Is you PVM connected to analog output or via an adapter to the hdmi output?


Re: Alice not syncing (only 30Hz)

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2023 3:34 pm
by akeley

This was via analog, but for the old times sake I've just tried it via Direct Video (with that aforementioned adapter) and it also works - this time on consumer Trinitron set. The numbers are the same.


Re: Alice not syncing (only 30Hz)

Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 11:35 am
by HerrBerzerk

Thanks for your tests! It is strange, that my results are completely different :-)

First two pictures are with my own ini were actually all cores run fine but Alice:
Digital out (with VGA Adapter) own ini.

IMG_3592.jpeg
IMG_3592.jpeg (3.04 MiB) Viewed 1537 times

Analog out with own ini

IMG_3595.JPG
IMG_3595.JPG (2.19 MiB) Viewed 1537 times

Picture 3&4 with your ini, only analog out because digital out does not sync at all

IMG_3606.jpeg
IMG_3606.jpeg (5.18 MiB) Viewed 1537 times
IMG_3607.jpeg
IMG_3607.jpeg (3.73 MiB) Viewed 1537 times

With your ini, the picture is better, but you see parts of the letters are missing and the picture seems very compressed...

It's not that I need this core to survive, it's just bugging me when these errors happen and I don't know why.


Re: Alice not syncing (only 30Hz)

Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 8:17 pm
by akeley
HerrBerzerk wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 11:35 am

it's just bugging me when these errors happen and I don't know why.

Yep, I get the same itch. But our results aren't completely different - without modelines I also can't display on VGA monitor or normal consumer set, it's the same, normal behaviour. Just that Toshiba not displaying 1:1 image and having scaling problems when using my config is strange. Actually, the squashed image looks like you have 16:9 AR set - go into OSD and change Aspect Ratio to 4:3 if it's 16:9 currently.


Re: Alice not syncing (only 30Hz)

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 2:54 pm
by HerrBerzerk

Hmm... stupid me, you were completely right, Aspect Ration was not 4:3. Thanks, working perfect now :-)

Can you tell me a word about the mode line you made? The vertical resolution of a CRT is 576 lines on PAL, Horizontal is not defined I guess. Why did you choose 490 lines and 30Hz? This sounds unusual to me. I guess the Alice can probably only 240 lines or something around that?


Re: Alice not syncing (only 30Hz)

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 5:28 pm
by akeley

Sorry, for me making modelines is still black magic - I only copied it from someone. Maybe somebody else can chime in, and you can also try to read this guide for more advanced insights.

Ata a glance though 490 is a near-multiple of 2x240 (a bit like old DOS games), and 4x320=1280, so 1276 (it's ok to do super-resolution in horizontal).

The result seems to be scaled 1:1 so that's great. Unfortunately I don't have acces to real Alice or any photos from it displaying on CRT so it's hard to say how faithful to the original the resulting look is. It's also tricky to establish info on what the original resolution should really be. It's quite possible it should maybe really look like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms42cn1bzwM which is how most micros from this family look. Maybe somebody could write a better modeline.


Re: Alice not syncing (only 30Hz)

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:27 pm
by HerrBerzerk

Thanks, I read the guide and understand the basics but yeah, black magic :-)