MiSTer FPGA Forum

It has come to my attention that there are currently no controllers on the market that are suitable for all console cores. You're either stuck with the PSX layout, that is great for SNES etc too, or the Saturn layout, that is great for Saturn and Mega Drive/SMS/arcade.

I want to design or at least convince someone else to make a controller with the traditional PSX layout with clever labelling so it can be used for SNES too and it will also have two extra buttons on the face so that it caters to Saturn and MD players.

I have sent an email to Retro Fighters to see if it's something they'd be interested in as I have no idea where to start but sure there's a market for this? It could be available with different button label layouts depending on what your fave cores are but whatever the labels, with a decent d-pad and PSX style analogues it would be the perfect controller to cover everything other than those stupid systems with number pads. It could potentially have P1/P2 start and coin buttons for arcade cores - just a row of little buttons across the top. I hate having to map this stuff differently depending on the game.

Would people be interested in this? I have run two successful Kickstarters in the past but I wouldn't undertake something like this without hardware/design people involved.

Let's face it - the most common question is "what controller is best?" I have a large collection of controllers and I'd love to have ONE controller that does it all and does it well.

Open to input/thoughts.

Cheers!

I emailed 8bitdo approximately a decade ago with my own idea for an emulation controller. I had asked them make a PSX layout controller, but with up to 8 more mappable buttons that are not tied to existing buttons for FF,REW,Pause,SaveState,LoadState,FullScreen,ETC...
With available PSX or Xbox layout controllers there are no extra buttons to use for PS1,PS2,PS3,XB,XB360,ETC emulators to map the FF,REW,Pause,SaveState,LoadState,FullScreen functions. The controllers that do have any extra buttons at present all have their buttons either unmappable or tied to other buttons.
With the popularity of emulation and FPGA simulation, I find it very surprising that not a single controller company has tapped this market.
Oh, And 8bitdo response to my email was a canned response. It was something along the lines of "Keep future dreams alive" or something like that. WTF.

craycraylj wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 5:16 am

I emailed 8bitdo approximately a decade ago with my own idea for an emulation controller. I had asked them make a PSX layout controller, but with up to 8 more mappable buttons that are not tied to existing buttons for FF,REW,Pause,SaveState,LoadState,FullScreen,ETC...
With available PSX or Xbox layout controllers there are no extra buttons to use for PS1,PS2,PS3,XB,XB360,ETC emulators to map the FF,REW,Pause,SaveState,LoadState,FullScreen functions. The controllers that do have any extra buttons at present all have their buttons either unmappable or tied to other buttons.
With the popularity of emulation and FPGA simulation, I find it very surprising that not a single controller company has tapped this market.
Oh, And 8bitdo response to my email was a canned response. It was something along the lines of "Keep future dreams alive" or something like that. WTF.

Wow. Maybe I should just find the right people to help and do it. Hehe.

You would definitely have at least one customer right here.

craycraylj wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:12 am

You would definitely have at least one customer right here.

Working on it. Just need help with the electronics, really. The design, prototype printing and building stuff I can do.

Doesn't the 8Bitdo SN30 Pro cover the majority of bases well enough ? Dual analogue sticks and decent Dpad

A gamepad style controller is not ideal for old computer cores where joysticks were used though, so there can never really be one controller to rule them all

Armakuni wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:08 am

Doesn't the 8Bitdo SN30 Pro cover the majority of bases well enough ? Dual analogue sticks and decent Dpad

A gamepad style controller is not ideal for old computer cores where joysticks were used though, so there can never really be one controller to rule them all

It only has four face buttons, like every other modern controller. Awful for Saturn, N64, Mega Drive and arcade 6-button games etc.

As for joysticks, you can make playing C64, Amiga etc much more fun by mapping up and space to buttons so you have more than one "button". But anyway, this would be a catch all console control pad design.

AfterBurnett wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:40 am

craycraylj wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:12 am

You would definitely have at least one customer right here.

Working on it. Just need help with the electronics, really. The design, prototype printing and building stuff I can do.

This would be a good start for the electronics side; throw one of the supported microcontrollers on a custom PCB that fits your shell.

https://gp2040-ce.info/

AfterBurnett wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:31 am

Armakuni wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:08 am

Doesn't the 8Bitdo SN30 Pro cover the majority of bases well enough ? Dual analogue sticks and decent Dpad

A gamepad style controller is not ideal for old computer cores where joysticks were used though, so there can never really be one controller to rule them all

It only has four face buttons, like every other modern controller. Awful for Saturn, N64, Mega Drive and arcade 6-button games etc.

As for joysticks, you can make playing C64, Amiga etc much more fun by mapping up and space to buttons so you have more than one "button". But anyway, this would be a catch all console control pad design.

Nah one button joystick games have to be played on one button with up for jump. Feels alien to play them any other way. The rolling of a joystick in the diagonals on a platformer cant never be replaced imho
I agree with the comment about Saturn but a lot of MD games were only three buttons. It also seems blasphemous to play arcade games on a controller too

Armakuni wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:43 am

Nah one button joystick games have to be played on one button with up for jump. Feels alien to play them any other way. The rolling of a joystick in the diagonals on a platformer cant never be replaced imho

I grew up with microcomputers & joysticks and have always hated them, especially the up-to-jump mechanic (to the point I seriously missed Redefine Keyboard option after moving from ZX to C64 & Amiga). The moment I experienced playing these old games with a movement on analog stick on a Dualshock-style controller was a revelation (which is also reflected in massive improvement to my high scores and overall game progress).

akeley wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:55 am

Armakuni wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:43 am

Nah one button joystick games have to be played on one button with up for jump. Feels alien to play them any other way. The rolling of a joystick in the diagonals on a platformer cant never be replaced imho

I grew up with microcomputers & joysticks and have always hated them, especially the up-to-jump mechanic (to the point I seriously missed Redefine Keyboard option after moving from ZX to C64 & Amiga). The moment I experienced playing these old games with a movement on analog stick on a Dualshock-style controller was a revelation (which is also reflected in massive improvement to my high scores and overall game progress).

Speccy was always best on keys though. The irony is C64 always had two button support and Amiga three button but they were rarely used. Its hard to make a handheld joystick with multiple usable buttons. The joysticks were always digital with the exception of the likes of the BBC

I can still complete the same games i could back in the day using a joystick and still love the feel and the way certain game mechanics were designed around it but now we have options everyone can be happy. There were some terrible joysticks released back in the day too

Armakuni wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:43 am

AfterBurnett wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:31 am

Armakuni wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:08 am

Doesn't the 8Bitdo SN30 Pro cover the majority of bases well enough ? Dual analogue sticks and decent Dpad

A gamepad style controller is not ideal for old computer cores where joysticks were used though, so there can never really be one controller to rule them all

It only has four face buttons, like every other modern controller. Awful for Saturn, N64, Mega Drive and arcade 6-button games etc.

As for joysticks, you can make playing C64, Amiga etc much more fun by mapping up and space to buttons so you have more than one "button". But anyway, this would be a catch all console control pad design.

Nah one button joystick games have to be played on one button with up for jump. Feels alien to play them any other way. The rolling of a joystick in the diagonals on a platformer cant never be replaced imho
I agree with the comment about Saturn but a lot of MD games were only three buttons. It also seems blasphemous to play arcade games on a controller too

And N64?

I guess you're not the target market then. I do like old joysticks for that nostalgic feeling but I'm much better when playing with a controller - map a button to up for jump and it's just like playing on Master System or NES. I do the same with racers. Up/down mapped to buttons for gas and brakes. Gives them a new lease on life.

As for arcade sticks - I have never been a huge fan unless they are attached to a cabinet. Sitting with a box on my lap hardly recreates the arcade experience for me. They move all over the place too. For me you need to be standing in front of a cabinet for it to feel "right" and I'd rather use a decent control pad. But everyone is different. I just want a controller suitable for everything without the sacrifices of the current Xbox or PS pads.

Armakuni wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:43 am

Speccy was always best on keys though.

Yeah, you're definitely not the target market.

AfterBurnett wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:23 pm

Armakuni wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:43 am

AfterBurnett wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:31 am

It only has four face buttons, like every other modern controller. Awful for Saturn, N64, Mega Drive and arcade 6-button games etc.

As for joysticks, you can make playing C64, Amiga etc much more fun by mapping up and space to buttons so you have more than one "button". But anyway, this would be a catch all console control pad design.

Nah one button joystick games have to be played on one button with up for jump. Feels alien to play them any other way. The rolling of a joystick in the diagonals on a platformer cant never be replaced imho
I agree with the comment about Saturn but a lot of MD games were only three buttons. It also seems blasphemous to play arcade games on a controller too

And N64?

I guess you're not the target market then. I do like old joysticks for that nostalgic feeling but I'm much better when playing with a controller - map a button to up for jump and it's just like playing on Master System or NES. I do the same with racers. Up/down mapped to buttons for gas and brakes. Gives them a new lease on life.

As for arcade sticks - I have never been a huge fan unless they are attached to a cabinet. Sitting with a box on my lap hardly recreates the arcade experience for me. They move all over the place too. For me you need to be standing in front of a cabinet for it to feel "right" and I'd rather use a decent control pad. But everyone is different. I just want a controller suitable for everything without the sacrifices of the current Xbox or PS pads.

For N64 the best solution imho is one of the 8bit do conversion kits for the original controller due to how unique it was

I never really want to imagine i am playing on a MS or NES when im playing C64 or Amiga.

I never feel playing arcade games is right without a proper cab in a arcade and you have to use proper credits but a decent arcade stick like the 8bitdo again helps remove some of the annoyance

As you say though everyone is different

Would people be interested in this?

Nope.
You cannot have ONE controller for ALL systems, it's just not possible.
But, good luck, anyway.

Most people who own a MiSTer either...

A)Use original console controllers
B)Use numerous controllers that replicate the look/feel of specific consoles

There are already a lot of controllers available that work well for multiple types of games, so thinking that there is a market for just ONE controller for ALL games is a bit unrealistic.

DiamondDave wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:03 pm

Most people who own a MiSTer either...

A)Use original console controllers
B)Use numerous controllers that replicate the look/feel of specific consoles

There are already a lot of controllers available that work well for multiple types of games, so thinking that there is a market for just ONE controller for ALL games is a bit unrealistic.

I use the 8bitdo m30 for almost everything. Got a great d-pad, more than enough buttons, and diamon-based controls are no problem on XABC.

In theory that new retrobit saturn-pad-like with analog sticks would be ideal, except the analog part seems real bad.

For me the 8bitdo M30 is the closest catch all controller, and a xbone controller for a catch all controller with analog sticks.
The three biggest not so great things about the M30 for me is.

1, WHY,whyyyyy must the L/R buttons be the same as Z/C, and not be "allowed" to be configured as separate buttons.
That is soooooo annoying having four buttons that can only be used as two

2, The buttons!
And by that i mean i have always not liked "sega 6 button" mainly for the different button sizes.
If the M30 had the same size (could be a bit smaller then the large A,B,C buttons) for all 6 buttons it would be perfect.

3, It is a bit small for my hands that are slightly bigger then medium, that makes my hands tired after a while.

And as some have said already a couple of more buttons that can be used for non gameplay uses would be really nice to have!

A lot of what you guys describe reminds me of the Retrobut Saturm Pro controller. I has 6 face buttons, analog sticks and shoulder buttons...

Anyway its not possible to cater for all cores... earlier consoles and computers need paddles and longer analog joysticks, and so on...

Personally, I like the Hori Fighting Commander for anything that does not require analot input. It has 6 face buttons, shoulder buttons, and a great dpad.

Actually, have you seen the Hori Fighting Commander Octa? That adds an analog stick and a mouse pad.

For me, mostly a PS-4 gamepad is fine except for that C-button on Sega, and then I unplug the PS-4 gamepad and go to a Sega USB gamepad, I bought online, but maybe there's some ideal game pad that could include both?
Maybe two rows of three, but with little screens that are software updatable with names that we can see what the buttons are called? I still find games confusing, sometimes, when they refer to buttons by name, and I don't quite recall which button that is due to switching systems too often. The whole "Xbox versus Nintendo" layout thing still baffles me after years of dealing with this.

The fighting games are kind of their own thing, and I total get why someone would get this for these, but I'd never play regular console games on something like this. I don't know if it's really a good thing to cover absolutely everything with one controller.
https://www.amazon.com/Buttons-Joystick ... B09176KFL3

I wonder how you would integrate an "intellivsion" disc style control into a universal controller. There are a few retro systems that use similar very non standard control schemes like this.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think it's a pointless endeavour. While you could make a controller that covers MOST cores, there will always be some sacrifices that have to be made and there will always be cores that it won't cover (most of the computer ones, oddball consoles). There is an interesting looking iPega out there that kinda matches my original idea - you can even use it as a mini arcade stick - but quality is a bit lacking.

I think I'll just stick with one MiSTer and a collection of controllers. I just got a cheap AliExpress knockoff N64 USB controller and it's actually very good - nothing beats playing a core with a controller that at least feels original.

Someone mentioned the Commander Octa - yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking but it only has one analogue stick - the new Tekken one has an extra analogue nub, which is at least something, I guess. But yeah. I'll just swap controllers as I swap cores. Not exactly hard to do. LOL

FoxbatStargazer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 12:47 am

DiamondDave wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:03 pm

Most people who own a MiSTer either...

A)Use original console controllers
B)Use numerous controllers that replicate the look/feel of specific consoles

There are already a lot of controllers available that work well for multiple types of games, so thinking that there is a market for just ONE controller for ALL games is a bit unrealistic.

I use the 8bitdo m30 for almost everything. Got a great d-pad, more than enough buttons, and diamon-based controls are no problem on XABC.

In theory that new retrobit saturn-pad-like with analog sticks would be ideal, except the analog part seems real bad.

I have an M30 - it's great. But certain games will never work properly with it (Smash TV on SNES and the like). It's good for most though. Also, no analogue and only two shoulder buttons.

The "catch all" controller I use is the Logitech F310 or F710 - PSX layout, fantastic d-pad. Only sucks for six button games and a lot of N64 stuff. I have the M30 and an N64 USB pad for those now though. The more I use "original" controllers, the more I'm liking the idea of building up a controller collection. I mean, you can play NES games with anything but an actual NES style pad feels much more authentic. I will pick up one of these for when I want to take the MiSTer somewhere and not carry a bag of controllers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7f5nBbxJEQ