MiSTer FPGA Forum

today I make a mistake and plug some consoles to another voltage....(ps1, 3do and a gamecube power brick....). shame on me but having all consoles hook up with small space is annoying....they will get repair but I realize that I spend more time hooking up/changing things than playing,. and when I want to play fast and without an issue....mister allways win.

So I packed all original consoles that have mister cores (I know 3do doesn´t have core yet....but I bet someday it will).

I know it´s not the same, it´s allmost perfect but.....let´s make a try...I will not sell my consoles soon....

ps1 core sometimes got freezes 1 sec in some games,. maybe is because I´m running from a hdd?
n64 got some games that do not work and maybe never will
saturn still not have lightgun support.

I don´t know....let´s try and see.....my turntable is allways ready although I got mp3 and streaming services....but is only 1 machine...not 10!

is somebody on the same boat?

I have already sold all my original consoles that have a Mister core. Nes, SNES, PS1, N64. Still own a Sega Saturn but is already up for sale as I no longer have a crt. So all my console retro gaming will be on mister + oled tv. It was nice to downsize to a single unit. I have no issues playing the current cores. The list of N64 games that do not work are not really ones I would choose to play. The PS1 has been mostly perfect on all games I have replayed. Saturn core still has issues but most of my library works. I am only waiting to see if bob deinterlacing will be implemented for 480i, if not, will have to add a morph or tink 4k for deinterlacing.

My wifey got me an Analogue Pocket for a late bday gift (Purple Limited Ed version - Purple is my fav color). Awesome device. While it is an amazing handheld, it not a very good docked system / console . Watching some PCN videos, I decided to get a MiSTer. Im actually glad I waited to get/build one (Ive been watching this project for YEARS now). It's a very mature product, with stable (some near perfect) 2-5th gen console cores and several awesome Arcade Cores. With projects like AmigaVision and 0Mhz making the computer cores feel more like consoles. With scripts that make the device easily updatable, I feel very comfortable with ONLY having the MiSTer (console) and Pocket (HandHeld).

I plan on working on a MiSTer NES Case in the near future. Using NFC cards as carts. Hopefully this summer?

My only MAJOR complaint about the MiSTer project in general, are things like reluctance to consider a GUI over CLI or allowing multiple controller configurations (instead pushing to buy controllers for EVERY core) are missing the mark, keeping this from becoming a mainstream product.

Having said all that, I really really do appreciate every dev that has put the effort into making the MiSTer what it is! It is a device I love and use on a daily basis.

midline_slippy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:19 am

My only MAJOR complaint about the MiSTer project....allowing multiple controller configurations (instead pushing to buy controllers for EVERY core) are missing the mark, keeping this from becoming a mainstream product.

You can configure a controller to work on multiple consoles, for example an Xbox or PS controller can be used for every single core. Nobody is pushed to buy specific controllers for each core unless you want to have a more accurate experience.

And the lack of a GUI is partially due to memory limitations of the DE-10 Nano itself. I'd rather it's limited resources go towards making the games work instead of getting colourful spinner menus.

DiamondDave wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:59 am

midline_slippy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:19 am

My only MAJOR complaint about the MiSTer project....allowing multiple controller configurations (instead pushing to buy controllers for EVERY core) are missing the mark, keeping this from becoming a mainstream product.

You can configure a controller to work on multiple consoles, for example an Xbox or PS controller can be used for every single core. Nobody is pushed to buy specific controllers for each core unless you want to have a more accurate experience.

And the lack of a GUI is partially due to memory limitations of the DE-10 Nano itself. I'd rather it's limited resources go towards making the games work instead of getting colourful spinner menus.

The controller aspect, you currently can NOT create multiple controller configs in a single core. Where this would be nice is specifically in the N64 core (IE: Crusin USA vs World/Exotica). Having a config per game, not core. Another example would be older games that didnt match "expected" button layout (IE: moving Jump from "UP" to a button, or X/B vs B/A layout, making all games match). If you look at the GitHub comments about this specific issue, it was expressed that users would be better off purchasing core specific controllers instead of allowing this.

GUI. I understand where you are coming from with that statement, but you have to understand, EVERYONE (that is not technically inclined) that I have ever shown the MiSTer to, this is ALWAYS the thing they complain about the most and a reason they would NOT buy one. I would also prefer dev time go into core dev than GUI, but that doesn't change the statement.

How long can you put off a low importance issue, before it becomes a more severe issue?

"How long can you put off a low importance issue, before it becomes a more severe issue?"

Important to who? You and your friends??

Just get one of those Chinese emulation boxes off AliExpress if you need animated menus and flashing graphics

DiamondDave wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:38 am

"How long can you put off a low importance issue, before it becomes a more severe issue?"

Important to who? You and your friends??

Just get one of those Chinese emulation boxes off AliExpress if you need animated menus and flashing graphics

Cool. I donno what you though you read, but I never said anything about "Chinese emulation boxes off AliExpress" In fact, in this very thread, I said - "I feel very comfortable with ONLY having the MiSTer (console) and Pocket (HandHeld)", because in fact they are the ONLY consoles I personally use. Please learn to read, before making comments like this.

Nah I'm just saying if your friends don't want to own a MiSTer just because it doesn't have "fun menus" maybe it's not a product for them? They would likely be happier with a cheaper emulator with fancy menus as they obviously don't care about what's it's doing at the hardware level.

DiamondDave wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:50 am

Nah I'm just saying if your friends don't want to own a MiSTer just because it doesn't have "fun menus" maybe it's not a product for them? They would likely be happier with a cheaper emulator with fancy menus as they obviously don't care about what's it's doing at the hardware level.

AND? I use FPGA because I do care about that. But you are missing the point entirely!

If ANY project like this is become MAINSTREAM, stuff like this DOES MATTER!! As the avg joe DOES CARE about this. Why do those "cheaper emulator with fancy menus" sell? PEOPLE WANT THEM!!

And Laughing at people doesnt help.

Who cares if MiSTer goes "mainstream"??

It's for hardcore vintage gamers, built by hobbyists and supported by open source programmers/developers in their free time. Nothing about it is targeted to the "average Joe".

Don't get so worked up

DiamondDave wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:59 am

Who cares if MiSTer goes "mainstream"??

It's for hardcore vintage gamers, built by hobbyists and supported by open source programmers/developers in their free time.

Don't get so worked up

I never said I did. Do you know what the word "IF" means?

The only thing Im really "worked up" is the utter disrepect you have shown. Keep laughing... It really shows your character.

EVERYONE (that is not technically inclined) that I have ever shown the MiSTer to, this is ALWAYS the thing they complain about the most and a reason they would NOT buy one.

I always feel weird when I read this. What is off-putting to them about the current menu? Press the menu button on the controller, load rom, pick the game you want to play. To me it seems to be pretty straight forward. I've shown multiple friends this and they have no issues with it at all.

All of my friends however grew up during the MSDOS gaming era, maybe it's something that younger people or people who only had consoles struggle with. You earlier called this a CLI, the menu is more accurately an OSD than it is a CLI. You aren't typing commands on a keyboard manually out.

Personally I find retroarch less intuitive of a menu, it's all bloated and flashy, it's very distracting.

aberu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:17 pm

EVERYONE (that is not technically inclined) that I have ever shown the MiSTer to, this is ALWAYS the thing they complain about the most and a reason they would NOT buy one.

I always feel weird when I read this. What is off-putting to them about the current menu? Press the menu button on the controller, load rom, pick the game you want to play. To me it seems to be pretty straight forward. I've shown multiple friends this and they have no issues with it at all.

All of my friends however grew up during the MSDOS gaming era, maybe it's something that younger people or people who only had consoles struggle with. You earlier called this a CLI, the menu is more accurately an OSD than it is a CLI. You aren't typing commands on a keyboard manually out.

Personally I find retroarch less intuitive of a menu, it's all bloated and flashy, it's very distracting.

I called it a CLI, because it is a CLI. Virtually every SSH terminal I've ever used looks and feels just like this. I mean, MiSTer reminds me a LOT of remotely configuring and deploying AIX servers.

As far as age, Im retired. I don't play modern consoles. Last console I personally owned was a Wii.

There is nothing wrong, per se, with the current interface. It does its job. Can the interface be made to look better? Yupper. Will it? Probably not. Im sure there are devs in this community that feel like you in that the menu doesn't need "better". Thats fine.

--EDIT--
Something I have asked for, as far as GUI is concerned, ability to change wallpaper based on what is highlighted in the menu. This is something the hardware is more than capable of doing. Its not a flashy spinner or anything like that. In fact, it wouldnt change any of the current functionality of the menu in any way. But it would go a LONG way to helping the overall image of the MiSTer to non-techy crowd.

There’s already a fork (possibly several) that do this. But yes, it was proposed and rejected from the main project.

midline_slippy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:19 am

My only MAJOR complaint about the MiSTer project in general, are things like reluctance to consider a GUI over CLI

nothing stopping you developing this idea yourself Midline, that's why it's open source..

bazza_12 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:08 pm

midline_slippy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:19 am

My only MAJOR complaint about the MiSTer project in general, are things like reluctance to consider a GUI over CLI

nothing stopping you developing this idea yourself Midline, that's why it's open source..

If I had the skills, I would, but sadly, I do not...

Bristles wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:14 pm

if ANY project like this is become MAINSTREAM, stuff like this DOES MATTER!! As the avg joe DOES CARE about this. Why do those "cheaper emulator with fancy menus" sell? PEOPLE WANT THEM!!

Why cant a FPGA both have a nice menu and be a good product?

I'll be straight up, if the main dev community has this kind of mentality, I'll gladly publicly DESTOY my MiSTer and very loudly do everything I can to stop people from buying ANY FPGA product! If that truly is the thought process I want nothing to do with the product or the community...

midline_slippy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:56 pm

I called it a CLI, because it is a CLI. Virtually every SSH terminal I've ever used looks and feels just like this. I mean, MiSTer reminds me a LOT of remotely configuring and deploying AIX servers.

The MiSTer's on screen display has more in common with the menu on a consumer appliance like an older television when you go into the settings on your remote control. You aren't manually typing in commands like in a terminal. You are pressing up, down, left, right, select, and back. That's it.

The only thing it's comparable to that is loosely associated with what you are describing would be a TUI (Text-based user interface). TUI's are not the same thing as CLI's though.

midline_slippy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:56 pm

There is nothing wrong, per se, with the current interface. It does its job. Can the interface be made to look better? Yupper. Will it? Probably not. Im sure there are devs in this community that feel like you in that the menu doesn't need "better". Thats fine.

I don't disagree that it can be made better. It could be more intuitive. I don't think that adding background splash art of Super Mario Bros makes it easier to use or more intuitive, unless there is a reading disability involved (which would be a fair point, that's an accessibility issue however, not a more general UX design issue).

midline_slippy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:56 pm

Something I have asked for, as far as GUI is concerned, ability to change wallpaper based on what is highlighted in the menu. This is something the hardware is more than capable of doing. Its not a flashy spinner or anything like that. In fact, it wouldnt change any of the current functionality of the menu in any way. But it would go a LONG way to helping the overall image of the MiSTer to non-techy crowd.

This has been proposed before and there are pros and cons to it. It's not a win win with no tradeoff whatsoever. Performance concernes, maintainability, and potential increase in "ticket-load" as it could be called were the cons.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/pull/704

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/pull/774

The principles behind not doing this are outlined by sorgelig there.

midline_slippy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:17 pm

I'll be straight up, if the main dev community has this kind of mentality, I'll gladly publicly DESTOY my MiSTer and very loudly do everything I can to stop people from buying ANY FPGA product! If that truly is the thought process I want nothing to do with the product or the community...

Bristles isn't a dev.

Try and relax a bit. You are getting disproportionately worked up over a difference of opinion on user experience.

aberu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:22 pm

midline_slippy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:56 pm

I called it a CLI, because it is a CLI. Virtually every SSH terminal I've ever used looks and feels just like this. I mean, MiSTer reminds me a LOT of remotely configuring and deploying AIX servers.

The MiSTer's on screen display has more in common with the menu on a consumer appliance like an older television when you go into the settings on your remote control. You aren't manually typing in commands like in a terminal. You are pressing up, down, left, right, select, and back. That's it.

The only thing it's comparable to that is loosely associated with what you are describing would be a TUI (Text-based user interface). TUI's are not the same thing as CLI's though.

midline_slippy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:56 pm

There is nothing wrong, per se, with the current interface. It does its job. Can the interface be made to look better? Yupper. Will it? Probably not. Im sure there are devs in this community that feel like you in that the menu doesn't need "better". Thats fine.

I don't disagree that it can be made better. It could be more intuitive. I don't think that adding background splash art of Super Mario Bros makes it easier to use or more intuitive, unless there is a reading disability involved (which would be a fair point, that's an accessibility issue however, not a more general UX design issue).

midline_slippy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:56 pm

Something I have asked for, as far as GUI is concerned, ability to change wallpaper based on what is highlighted in the menu. This is something the hardware is more than capable of doing. Its not a flashy spinner or anything like that. In fact, it wouldnt change any of the current functionality of the menu in any way. But it would go a LONG way to helping the overall image of the MiSTer to non-techy crowd.

This has been proposed before and there are pros and cons to it. It's not a win win with no tradeoff whatsoever. Performance concernes, maintainability, and potential increase in "ticket-load" as it could be called were the cons.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/pull/704

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/pull/774

The principles behind not doing this are outlined by sorgelig there.

Thank you for the clear and reasonable response.

As far as me calling the current menu system a CLI, this menu-ing system been part of mainstay UNIX CLI since the 70s. Obviously I used the AIX comparison previously. Ive professionally known menu systems like this as CLI for several decades. Its gonna be very difficult for anyone to persuade me from away from that opinion.

Im pretty sure someone has pointed me to those GitHub comments before. The main dev has obviously heard these concerns before, considered them and that is their standpoint on them. I can respect their opinion and I obviously have mine. They are different. That is ok. I am a firm believer in talking to those of differing opinions. They often will have a different thought process that may lead you to something you never considered before.

It's when the talking stops and it becomes name calling that I start takeing offense to it.

Well midline, the terminology here is a bit iffy. A CLI is a Command Line Interface: a single line of text that you type into your terminal and finish with a press of the Enter key. If you know AIX, you know what a shell is in UNIX. That's an example of a CLI. Just like the prompt in MS-DOS.

A menu that offers choices may use text mode of a display but is not a CLI if you are not entering commands onto a line of text and pressing Enter to submit them. You are using a Text mode User Interface or TUI. Like menus built using the courses/ncurses library on UNIX. Very similar to graphical interfaces (GUI), but limited to the display's text mode.

You may be of the opinion that a menu system is a CLI and you're welcome to your opinion, but don't be surprised by the misunderstanding brought on by a different convention in the rest of the world.

Bristles wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:17 pm

The wrong attitude, is bending over backwards to serve stupid people. This project is not for them. If stupid people want hand-holding, and an even simpler menu system than a text-based menu, then they can go buy a Raspberry Pi, and leave the Mister alone.

I reject this arbitrary gatekeeping framing completely. Sorgelig and other devs have made plenty of great changes to make it easier to use overall. I made a (hopefully) more accessible documentation site because I'd rather have more people enjoy gaming on FPGA devices than to keep it relegated into obscurity for some kind of ego stroking session.

How my post become to this??????

=(

I just was telling my thoughts on use only mister and put in boxes my original consoles....I´m still thinking if it´s a good idea....today I run n64 core...seems great.....still got to test it!

Keep your original hardware, nothing can match REAL hardware, not even the Mister.
Real hardware has history, it's been made, sold, and used, back in the day - The Mister doesn't have this. In 10+ years time, your original hardware will be worth 2x what it's worth today, the Mister will be worth nothing.
Mister is like emulation, it gives you a quick fix for retro gaming, but it doesn't give you the "experience", and "Feel" of using the original systems. My Mister mostly collects dust because every time I use it, it feels souless, and I know I am just pretending really hard that this is something trying to be something it really isn't.
If you lack the space, Mister is perfect for that, and I understand not everyone has the time, or space to game on original hardware.

wow!!! thanks for the reply...totaly agree

Bristles wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:29 pm

aberu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:55 pm

Bristles wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:17 pm

The wrong attitude, is bending over backwards to serve stupid people. This project is not for them. If stupid people want hand-holding, and an even simpler menu system than a text-based menu, then they can go buy a Raspberry Pi, and leave the Mister alone.

I reject this arbitrary gatekeeping framing completely. Sorgelig and other devs have made plenty of great changes to make it easier to use overall. I made a (hopefully) more accessible documentation site because I'd rather have more people enjoy gaming on FPGA devices than to keep it relegated into obscurity for some kind of ego stroking session.

Gatekeeping ? Fck off. I don't want stupid people using something they struggle to use. Period. You want an all-fancy piece of shite menu system, then fork it off to something else, and not force it on everyone. I learnt the damn device by reading, listening, and trying shit myself, why shouldn't other people do the same ?
Seriously, Fck this simplifying, and dumbing down of everything. Society is getting dumber by the day. Politics reduced to 3-word slogans for stupid people, movies dumbed down for stupid people - so we end up with Barbie the Movie. Music, Videogames, it's all going to shit.

It's a little rough to say it such way, but it's not far from the truth. It feel like today's is the 90's worst nightmare.

I barely watch any new film or series anymore, it seems everything is on the level of this barbie thing. Some decent directors talked of it (Carpenter and such) like anthropologist are slowly watching the decay of civilization.
Some days ago i tried to watch the last avatar. I barely passed the first hour... and it's the director of true lies or T2.
At least there is still some video games decently made.

Atohmdiy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:42 pm

Bristles wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:29 pm

aberu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:55 pm

I reject this arbitrary gatekeeping framing completely. Sorgelig and other devs have made plenty of great changes to make it easier to use overall. I made a (hopefully) more accessible documentation site because I'd rather have more people enjoy gaming on FPGA devices than to keep it relegated into obscurity for some kind of ego stroking session.

Gatekeeping ? Fck off. I don't want stupid people using something they struggle to use. Period. You want an all-fancy piece of shite menu system, then fork it off to something else, and not force it on everyone. I learnt the damn device by reading, listening, and trying shit myself, why shouldn't other people do the same ?
Seriously, Fck this simplifying, and dumbing down of everything. Society is getting dumber by the day. Politics reduced to 3-word slogans for stupid people, movies dumbed down for stupid people - so we end up with Barbie the Movie. Music, Videogames, it's all going to shit.

It's a little rough to say it such way, but it's not far from the truth. It feel like today's is the 90's worst nightmare.

I barely watch any new film or series anymore, it seems everything is on the level of this barbie thing. Some decent directors talked of it (Carpenter and such) like anthropologist are slowly watching the decay of civilization.
Some days ago i tried to watch the last avatar. I barely passed the first hour... and it's the director of true lies or T2.
At least there is still some video games decently made.

It was a little rough, and I apologize for it. But, my point still stands.
I also, like you, tried to watch the Avatar Way of the Water movie, and it sucked. The effects just overwhelmed the whole movie, and I lost interest after just 20 minutes. This also applies to the myriad of superhero movies out there - flood the viewer with stupid amounts of digital CGI, and they won't notice that there is actually little story to the movie.

Bristles wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:10 pm

Keep your original hardware, nothing can match REAL hardware, not even the Mister.
Real hardware has history, it's been made, sold, and used, back in the day - The Mister doesn't have this. In 10+ years time, your original hardware will be worth 2x what it's worth today, the Mister will be worth nothing.
Mister is like emulation, it gives you a quick fix for retro gaming, but it doesn't give you the "experience", and "Feel" of using the original systems. My Mister mostly collects dust because every time I use it, it feels souless, and I know I am just pretending really hard that this is something trying to be something it really isn't.
If you lack the space, Mister is perfect for that, and I understand not everyone has the time, or space to game on original hardware.

I know what you're getting at but don't agree completely, else why would anyone have shelled out for a MiSTer over a Raspberry Pi?
Having used the Pi before the MiSTer I felt that device was somewhat soul-less. I was shocked how much more the MiSTer offered in that undefinable area of 'feel' and 'experience'. I don't mean due to latency or lack of lag when playing games, I don't mean the ability to use period controllers, or MIDI, or CRT TV/monitors.. there is something intangible about the MiSTers reproduction of vintage 8/16 bit machines.. I can't quite put my finger on it.. the interface is stripped down and text-based - as someone who grew up with text-based menu displays (thinking ZX Spectrum+3 opening menu), as someone who typed out listings from magazines, interacted with text-based menus on VCR's/DVD's/Teletext - the MiSTer menu feels like a reflection of that simpler time.

If anything owning a MiSTer has made me appreciate those old computers I used to own more. So, yeah if you feel the need to box up and flog your original hardware.. go for it.. I'll be on ebay waiting to grab a bargain..

Getting a new Raspberry has become more of a tradition for me: I got all models since it first came out, from 1 to 5 not counting the one I use as an mt32-pi.

So, when my new RPi5 8GB arrived (lots of power, according to all reviews), I downloaded a 500GB Retropie image full of stuff with a super cool interface with covers, animations, everything.

Fun to browse, sure. But, when you get accustomed to FPGA (I have an Analogue Pocket too), the fun stops when you start playing, because you remember immediately how tight FPGA gaming is compared to normal emulation.

The various N64 emulators there still struggle with graphic glitches and audio after like 10-15 years of being in development, while we one we have on Mister was made in one year and even if it doesn't play a couple of games, the rest is almost equivalent to real hardware (I keep my real N64 connected to the same CRT as the Mister as a comparison) and more importantly "feels" almost like the real hardware.

And do we really need layers over layers of software just to make the device "user friendly", so there's a full-blown Linux which takes some time to load, then starts Emulation Station which adds its own startup time, which will start Retroarch and then we'll finally get to load the emulator? And if there's something not working, maybe a joystick config, you'll start wondering where you need to look for a fix: Retroarch, Emulator Station, Retropie config or perhaps digging into Linux itself? Tried Batocera too, not really different, just less options.

It seems those heavy graphical UIs are there basically to fulfill the inflated ego of their creators and for the profit of hundreds of cheap mini consoles sold on Aliexpresss.

bazza_12 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:04 am

So, yeah if you feel the need to box up and flog your original hardware.. go for it.. I'll be on ebay waiting to grab a bargain..

Where did I say I was going to sell my original hardware ?
If anything, it's my Mister that will go first.

Bristles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:17 pm

Where did I say I was going to sell my original hardware ?
If anything, it's my Mister that will go first.

shame i was lookin forward to getting me some sweet sweet vintage console goodness.. ah well..