MiSTer FPGA Forum

One board, no increasing cost of modularity, except for gamepad ports
Minimalistic design, only the essentials, the best ports, no industrial connectors like D-SUB
Ease of use, simple understandable form factor of a classic console
All TV connection ports face backwards
Ports of wired original gamepads look forward
USB-C 3 in 1 Power/Video/DATA
One SNES Multi Out connector - all analog video standards

It wouldn't make any sense to use a standard port like SNES AV then change the pinout, you would then need custom cables.

Single board MiSTer clones are already in the works. We know for sure a handheld variant is being worked on that will be very sleek.

the MMS made this idea a reality for me.

wont help those concerned about cost but being able to plunk down a de-10 nano onto a header and getting everything above (and more) made it the right solution for me.

callanabrown wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 7:02 pm

It wouldn't make any sense to use a standard port like SNES AV then change the pinout, you would then need custom cables.

Single board MiSTer clones are already in the works. We know for sure a handheld variant is being worked on that will be very sleek.

Few people need VGA, since there are practically no TVs with VGA. The mainstream will connect via USB-C and HDMI, CRT TV fans via RGB and a very small number via VGA to computer monitors. Why waste space on the board for another ugly industrial connector and install a separate 3.5 jack or RCA for stereo sound when all this can fit into one SNES Multi OUT connector. That's why it's called "Multi OUT". Soldering a cable or adapter is not difficult; you can make a small printed circuit board adapter; those who really need VGA will happily do this. It’s a different matter if it didn’t exist at all, I would understand this objection, so this is nitpicking. If you need a VGA D-SUB, you already have it in that damn de-10 nano sandwich with connectors in all directions, use it.

Missus wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 7:33 pm

the MMS made this idea a reality for me.

wont help those concerned about cost but being able to plunk down a de-10 nano onto a header and getting everything above (and more) made it the right solution for me.

It's a lie. The Multisystem looks almost as monstrous and it is still modular, inconvenient, large and expensive. The MS board is maximalistic, chaotic, it has a lot of unnecessary connectors, these 4 USB sticking out from the front sparkle with iron like a person with false teeth, absolutely unnecessary crap like S/PDIF, 3.5 jack, D-Sub, it does not have power via USB-C and simultaneous transfers power and video via USB-C, the board is very large despite the fact that it does not have a built-in power supply, it is about the size of a PS1, what's the point if you can just shove the de-10 nano into the PS1 case. My concept is more elegant, minimalistic, miniature and convenient, so there is no need to mention the MS board here and say that they are exactly the same, because they are not.

SD2SNES wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 8:18 pm

It's a lie. The Multisystem looks almost as monstrous and it is still modular, inconvenient, large and expensive. The MS board is maximalistic, chaotic, it has a lot of unnecessary connectors, these 4 USB sticking out from the front sparkle with iron like a person with false teeth, absolutely unnecessary crap like S/PDIF, 3.5 jack, D-Sub, it does not have power via USB-C and simultaneous transfers power and video via USB-C, the board is very large despite the fact that it does not have a built-in power supply, it is about the size of a PS1, what's the point if you can just shove the de-10 nano into the PS1 case. My concept is more elegant, minimalistic, miniature and convenient, so there is no need to mention the MS board here and say that they are exactly the same, because they are not.

A lie? I stated it fits the bill -for me-. That can't be a 'lie'.

All of the things you mention are features i appreciate and use.

I've been using it for what seems like ages, never had a problem, and will continue using it as you dream of something that fits your need better.

Good luck!

We made the Multisystem to be an all-in-one MiSTer in 2021, many people have enjoyed this form factor and it's still being made and sold. We also released it as full open source hardware for anyone to use in commercial use or otherwise.

Doing it again today, we would make a few minor different choices, but not many. Maybe appreciate if for what it is, and you can focus on your own solution if you believe in it.

Good luck with your design, we will take a look when it's all done and released as open source for everyone.

SD2SNES wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 8:18 pm

Missus wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 7:33 pm

the MMS made this idea a reality for me.

wont help those concerned about cost but being able to plunk down a de-10 nano onto a header and getting everything above (and more) made it the right solution for me.

It's a lie. The Multisystem looks almost as monstrous and it is still modular, inconvenient, large and expensive. The MS board is maximalistic, chaotic, it has a lot of unnecessary connectors, these 4 USB sticking out from the front sparkle with iron like a person with false teeth, absolutely unnecessary crap like S/PDIF, 3.5 jack, D-Sub, it does not have power via USB-C and simultaneous transfers power and video via USB-C, the board is very large despite the fact that it does not have a built-in power supply, it is about the size of a PS1, what's the point if you can just shove the de-10 nano into the PS1 case. My concept is more elegant, minimalistic, miniature and convenient, so there is no need to mention the MS board here and say that they are exactly the same, because they are not.

Multi Out one connector - all analog outputs

Composite
S-Video
RGB
Component
VGA
Stereo sound
+12v
+5v

Video signals are changed using switches on the board.

SD2SNES wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 8:18 pm

My concept is more elegant

Do you have anything other than an idea of where all of the ports should be located? If you don't even have a blueprint don't expect people to take you seriously
If your username is true and you're the person behind SD2SNES then I'd welcome you making this project a reality, but if not then buzz off.

Personally I dont like it at all. Its reliance on a SNES controller front panel makes it virtually useless for my needs. At the moment you have drawn some pretty pictures, found a couple of pictures of components and that seems to be it. In the process you have been quite rude about the MMS system.

FPGA64 wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 8:00 am

Personally I dont like it at all. Its reliance on a SNES controller front panel makes it virtually useless for my needs. At the moment you have drawn some pretty pictures, found a couple of pictures of components and that seems to be it. In the process you have been quite rude about the MMS system.

Are your eyesight okay? Take a closer look, the gamepad ports are replaceable.

Should I praise this chaotic squalor if I don’t like it? The so-called “multisystem” is an intermediate, expensive option and will become unnecessary with the advent of console singleboards.

If you are so confident about it then just go build the boards.

callanabrown wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 7:02 pm

It wouldn't make any sense to use a standard port like SNES AV then change the pinout, you would then need custom cables.

Single board MiSTer clones are already in the works. We know for sure a handheld variant is being worked on that will be very sleek.

I updated the video output, now it has all video standards at once, which are selected by switches. For Composite/RGB/S-Video, a standard SNES NTSC cable is suitable. An adapter will be made for the Component and VGA or you can solder the cable, it's very simple and cool.

SD2SNES wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 11:46 am

I didn’t know that there was so much bilious shit here and among retro gamers. I answer people the way they treat me, I didn’t start it. They praise their swamp because they already bought this modular shit with DE-Nano and multisystems. I'm not interested in your meager, scanty worldview. But you will be the first to run to buy this board for 80-100 dollars.

OH! $80 to $100???

Why didn't you say that before?!?

I'm in, sign me up, take my money.
Sounds cheap! How would this work?
Do you have a BoM?

I noticed you completely changed the design from the ground up, earlier this week this project was Cyclone V based, but now its a Sipeed Tang?

So, is it no longer a Mister? Would completely different software and cores be needed, or can it still run update_all? This is such a massive undertaking, you must have serious interdisciplinary knowledge to take on such a challenge. Makes me wonder what your day job is!

You might right about this thing being superior to what we are all using. Does it have a name??

How are you able to build this custom board for less than the cost of the parts and production??? Philanthropy?

If so, thank you so much for all the hard work and visionary plan.

I cant wait!!!

Your concept of this single board fpga based console isn't bad for those who want a SNES like-console with all cables, except controller ports, hidden (as long as those controllers aren't USB).
I know you don't like "industrial" connectors like the VGA connector and while the SNES AV connector looks nicer, it's not a standard connector. So unless you are prepared to ship pre-fabricated cables along with the device, you may detract potential users of that port.
Nobody can stop you from creating something you like. It's your vision and if you think there is a market for it and it will be large enough to make it worth the expense you'll go through, then I encourage you to do it.

The issue is, you posted your opinion on what an elegant console should look like and when people started to express their opinion, you got very offended.
Instead of explaining your vision on why, in your opinion, this is elegant, you start attacking other people's work.
It's akin to somebody coming up with a yet MORE elegant single board that uses a Playstation AV connector instead and no controller ports in the front and it's all wireless and says who wants to use that ugly looking thing from SD2SNES.
Their opinion is just that, their opinion...but you don't go around bashing other people's work of art just to promote your own.

From some of your replies, I honestly can't tell if you are serious about your project idea or you are trolling.
If you are serious and just wanted to test the market to see how it may be received, you are doing what countless others have done and, as some may say, shot yourself in the foot.

Missus wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 1:49 pm

SD2SNES wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 11:46 am

I didn’t know that there was so much bilious shit here and among retro gamers. I answer people the way they treat me, I didn’t start it. They praise their swamp because they already bought this modular shit with DE-Nano and multisystems. I'm not interested in your meager, scanty worldview. But you will be the first to run to buy this board for 80-100 dollars.

OH! $80 to $100???

Why didn't you say that before?!?

I'm in, sign me up, take my money.
Sounds cheap! How would this work?
Do you have a BoM?

I noticed you completely changed the design from the ground up, earlier this week this project was Cyclone V based, but mow its a Sispeed Tang?

So, is it no longer a Mister? Would completely different software and cores be needed, or can it still run update_all? This is such a massive undertaking, you must have massive interdisciplinary knowledge yo take on such a challenge.

You might right about this thing being superior to what we are all using. Does it have a name??

How are you able to build this custom board for less than the cost of the parts and production??? Philanthropy?

I cant wait!!!

I won't sell anything. I just want to make a PCB project, preferably with source code. Anyone can make and sell it. The Chinese will happily copy it and sell it to you. Several developers are already preparing their boards in the $100 range, they make these boards from scratch, but they almost completely copy the DE-Nano standard. I want to convey the idea that there is no need to adhere to the DE-Nano modular system since the boards are created from scratch, but to take a big step forward and use my ideas. If this or a similar board does not appear on the market, then I will hire specialists and make a one-piece copy for myself.

Flandango wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 2:02 pm

Your concept of this single board fpga based console isn't bad for those who want a SNES like-console with all cables, except controller ports, hidden (as long as those controllers aren't USB).
I know you don't like "industrial" connectors like the VGA connector and while the SNES AV connector looks nicer, it's not a standard connector. So unless you are prepared to ship pre-fabricated cables along with the device, you may detract potential users of that port.
Nobody can stop you from creating something you like. It's your vision and if you think there is a market for it and it will be large enough to make it worth the expense you'll go through, then I encourage you to do it.

The issue is, you posted your opinion on what an elegant console should look like and when people started to express their opinion, you got very offended.
Instead of explaining your vision on why, in your opinion, this is elegant, you start attacking other people's work.
It's akin to somebody coming up with a yet MORE elegant single board that uses a Playstation AV connector instead and no controller ports in the front and it's all wireless and says who wants to use that ugly looking thing from SD2SNES.
Their opinion is just that, their opinion...but you don't go around bashing other people's work of art just to promote your own.

From some of your replies, I honestly can't tell if you are serious about your project idea or you are trolling.
If you are serious and just wanted to test the market to see how it may be received, you are doing what countless others have done and, as some may say, shot yourself in the foot.

I can roughly imagine the statistics of TV and the connectors on them.
I’m sure the mainstream is HDMI and USB-C (Power/Video) and 60-80 percent will use only them.
But let's skip it and focus on CRT TV.
For that matter, the most common connector on TV is RF, but who needs it even from the remaining 20-30 percent, and who needs composite? Nobody either. VGA is only available on later TV models and there are very few of them; besides, such TVs also had HDMI. VGA are mostly 17-inch monitors, maximum 21. What normal person would squint at such a small screen? Personally, I would never do this when playing retro for the sake of some kind of pixel clarity in old games where the picture, to put it mildly, is not perfect and is all compressed with color restrictions, etc. RGB would be enough for me, especially since CRT is good at smoothing out all these sharp and pinched pixels. But I corrected this by adding the concept of a switch on the board and added all 5 possible video standards except RF in one of the most popular and favorite connectors of a huge number of retrogamers, but there are still those who are satisfied who want 10 or 20 connectors, I remind you that only one component is three RGA connectors and two more for sound. These are juvenile maximalists. If they want a big board with a bunch of connectors, let them use the so-called "multisystem" and pay double or triple the price for a bunch of connectors that they will never use.
Everything would have been much simpler if in the 80s Sony, Panasonic, and Nintendo had been more forward-thinking and taken care of making home VGA in all TVs with another non-industrial connector, for example with the same Multi Out along with stereo sound in one cable, instead in order to create unnecessary S/PDIF, then this board would have only one VGA output with stereo, but this did not happen, so there is no need to worry about this and make a mountain out of a molehill.

SD2SNES wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 2:07 pm

Missus wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 1:49 pm

OH! $80 to $100???

Why didn't you say that before?!?

I'm in, sign me up, take my money.
Sounds cheap! How would this work?
Do you have a BoM?

I noticed you completely changed the design from the ground up, earlier this week this project was Cyclone V based, but mow its a Sispeed Tang?

So, is it no longer a Mister? Would completely different software and cores be needed, or can it still run update_all? This is such a massive undertaking, you must have massive interdisciplinary knowledge yo take on such a challenge.

You might right about this thing being superior to what we are all using. Does it have a name??

How are you able to build this custom board for less than the cost of the parts and production??? Philanthropy?

I cant wait!!!

I won't sell anything. I just want to make a PCB project, preferably with source code. Anyone can make and sell it. The Chinese will happily copy it and sell it to you. Several developers are already preparing their boards in the $100 range, they make these boards from scratch, but they almost completely copy the DE-Nano standard. I want to convey the idea that there is no need to adhere to the DE-Nano modular system since the boards are created from scratch, but to take a big step forward and use my ideas. If this or a similar board does not appear on the market, then I will hire specialists and make a one-piece copy for myself.

Could you answer some of my questions?

Why go from CV to Tang?
New cores, new software needed?
Are you going to do the dev work?
Is there a BoM? Cost of all the parts?
Does it have a name?

A single-board implementation of the "MiSTer stack" that is 100% compatible and open source is a great idea. Especially if they could be built for less money than buying all the components, and people could buy them from makers already assembled in a case. Curious to see what you come up with!

I'm gonna say it, I don't think this guy has any experience in electrical engineering

Longtime4321 wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 6:23 pm

I'm gonna say it, I don't think this guy has any experience in electrical engineering

About as much as social engineering.

SD2SNES wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 7:53 pm

Few people need VGA, since there are practically no TVs with VGA. The mainstream will connect via USB-C and HDMI, CRT TV fans via RGB and a very small number via VGA to computer monitors. Why waste space on the board for another ugly industrial connector and install a separate 3.5 jack or RCA for stereo sound when all this can fit into one SNES Multi OUT connector. That's why it's called "Multi OUT". Soldering a cable or adapter is not difficult; you can make a small printed circuit board adapter; those who really need VGA will happily do this. It’s a different matter if it didn’t exist at all, I would understand this objection, so this is nitpicking. If you need a VGA D-SUB, you already have it in that damn de-10 nano sandwich with connectors in all directions, use it.

You've got the VGA thing all wrong. VGA is already a multi-out. You can get VGA to 5-BNC (for separate sync), 4-BNC (composite sync), component, s-video, composite cables all for next to nothing on Amazon.

Soldering a cable or adapter IS difficult for most people. Buying ready-made cables is not. The very idea of making a custom solution for ease of use, that then relies on custom cables is silly.