MiSTer FPGA Forum

You know, because there weren't already enough delays and excuses...

I present - the Multi Polymega Retro System!

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2024 ... onnections

No, but seriously...the thing that was supposed to be arcade-first is now targeted as a FPGA clone of Polymega, right down to modules containing custom cartridge slots and controller ports. Not a word on how this will affect the $700 originally-proposed price tag (for comparison, the base Polymega system is $549 retail).

No clue how it's actually going to work (2600+-style dump-and-run with checksum match? Live pin-level reads and writes? Elfin magic?), particularly with cartridges containing custom chips and/or save capabilities. I bet atrac17 doesn't know either.

To make matters even MORE complicated, it's now going to support every video connector ever apparently, including S-Video and component. (No composite? Really?)

Remember, this is precisely what Polymega was originally scoped to do, and 2 years later, they gave up and went software-only...which was the only hope the product had, but still ended up with a shoddy (if somewhat working) result. Also note Polymega had actual funding and a team.

So far, all we're getting - despite them promising to finally show a working product in June - are renders and drawings of this next iteration.

I expect in June we'll hear about delays with tooling, sourcing cartridge edge components, licensing deals, etc. to buy time through the end of summer, and then around the middle of Fall we'll be told they're cooking up something EVEN MORE amazing that will use Artificial Intelligence to...do something!

FFS, atrac17...stop it. Please. You are most seriously only making a bad thing worse, Mike Kennedy (of Coleco Chameleon fame)-style.

I get you had a fantasy about a 'better way' than MiSTer, but come on. MiSTer has something very, VERY important that MARS does not...it actually exists beyond a fever dream.

ENOUGH!

I'll hold off on roasting MARS for now, since Replay 2 hasn't appeared yet either.

But I will question atrac17, and his strange choice of publicly crapping on the MiSTer project. This won't attract customers to MARS.

In any case, I'll be surprised if either MARS or Replay 2 sell that many units. Any sales in this economy will probably be for the upcoming $100 MiSTer clone.

It does have composite (CVBS), cart is direct read (no dumping) according to Todd Gill, and it's already delayed hehheh....

https://x.com/MARSFPGA/status/1791573158920610200

.@pr4m0d and @_atrac17 will be doing an FPGA gaming panel but we won't be demoing the hardware. We missed that target by about a month. It's a completely new design with a very different architecture so it'll take a little more time to spin up. Not too far away though.

Easy to say such thing when you don't do anything yourself. Managing a project is everything but easy, especially considering what they want to do.

The only problem i have with MARS is the way Atrac supposedly bash Mister. I don't follow much the social network so i don't follow the relation between fpga developers, and i don't care.

The way i see it their solution seems promising. They say they will stay open source and it's the most important to me. I don't understand why people buy garbage from analogue.
There is an actual team behind it with members that already showed their competence.
In the technical area the Titanium fpga is suppose to go beyond what mister can do. We saw the end of the N64 development, so we know now where the ultimate limit of the mister is. They say they want to do dreamcast / naomi / atomiswave and 3do, for that only this device is worse. It also mean a way to really finish the N64 core (but i don't know if Robert is interested ) and it open the door for more early 3d arcade board.

They also announced a few things that can work on the mister, like pgm or beast busters. I they stay true to their word of being open source, one day we'll surely have port of these core for our mister, so why not !

And for the switchable front panel and cartridge connector, a lot of people asked for it with the mister. I don't care but i understand it's a good idea if you want to build a full commercial product. Mister is DIY and in that regards Mars will play in a different league.

I am more skeptical with the replay2. The first one was delayed for so long it just killed the project and the second is following the same path. Just go to their website, there is a news about the replay2 from 2017 (!!!). Then developer came here to say he wanted to build his platform with a xilinx soc, then he changed everything and now it's an hybrid between a rockchip arm soc and a new intel fpga ?
I am sure the guy is nice but clearly there is something very wrong in the way he is managing his projects. I really don't expect to have something that shows up in his side.

So far, all MARS has produced is theories and promises, not one of which has been kept. I can't figure out for the life of me why anyone believes they will produce anything more than fantasy.

HarborSeal wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 2:05 am

I'll hold off on roasting MARS for now, since Replay 2 hasn't appeared yet either.

....I'll be surprised if either MARS or Replay 2 sell that many units. Any sales in this economy will probably be for the upcoming $100 MiSTer clone.

pretty much this. imo, anything past N64 is better emulated thru software, and the handful of cores that are promised for MARS wont make me shell out $700 for another FPGA console that a $100 MiSTer clone can cover 95% of (and the rest can be covered with Groovy MiSTer). that includes a replay2

i think what Taki Udon is doing, creating MiSTer clones and a MiSTer handheld will be a bigger boon for FPGA gaming. something that will get FPGA into the hands of so many people who were on the fence about it. much smarter business and headed in the right direction

not even released

I am already waiting for the clone.

rhester72 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 2:46 pm

So far, all MARS has produced is theories and promises, not one of which has been kept. I can't figure out for the life of me why anyone believes they will produce anything more than fantasy.

It's not a matter of believing, i don't think anyone is fool enough to wait for them. As you said the only thing they show is thin air and they clearly don't pass the conception phase yet. So what they do is the modern marketing garbage thing. Pretty much everyone is doing it now...

Future will tell if it's a viable product or a complete vaporware. Personally i wish they succeed because as i said i'd like a good open source alternative to analogue. They is clearly room for what they are doing, Mister is too "DIY" in nature for everyone, even with the more integrated version. And also as i said this is clearly a good thing if another open source platform produce core that can be ported to the Mister.

There advantage of FPGA but preservation is one of the big argument, and clearly analog core won't survive this company if they bankrupt.

Of course there is the possibility of endless report, but if they decide to show something i'm curious for the naomi and if it will be at launch. The dev said he has the "powervr in verilog for another project" so who knows, maybe they are more advanced than we thought
But still a dreamcast in fpga would be an accomplishment, even if it's not sure if it's really useful compare to software emulation.

This reminds me a bit of the days of Bitboys Oy / Glaze 3D. A really great product, in theory, that may or may not ever become a real product. It will be interesting to see if it comes to fruition. Personally, I don't see myself needing one because I am more into the more classic stuff and MiSTer meets my needs.

thorr wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 8:01 pm

This reminds me a bit of the days of Bitboys Oy / Glaze 3D.

Oh my goodness, that's a deep cut! I am now being sucked back into the late '90s...

Feature creep is setting in. This is a good idea, but should be a follow-up to the existing MARS project.

Atohmdiy wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 1:49 pm

The way i see it their solution seems promising. They say they will stay open source and it's the most important to me. I don't understand why people buy garbage from analogue.

Because despite their generally awful communication and endless delays/poor product availablitiy, the products that they do eventually produce are pure quality. I've owned the Super NT and the Mega SG before (though sold them once I got my MiSTer Multisystem) and both were exceptionally well produced systems, I'd still recommend them to anyone who wants to use their original carts (or even ROMs on a Jailbroken firmware) as a completely plug n' play no fuss experience. Just because the MiSTer exists, it doesn't mean that everything else is an invalid choice.

And the Analogue Pocket is still your only option if you want the FPGA experience in a handheld, it's a phenomenal product that is so good that I own two of them alongside a couple of docks; despite also having a MiSTer. They serve different markets and purposes, and the AP is an incredibly well made product that compliments the MiSTer perfectly.

There's no reason why MARS and MiSTer can't co-exist, and we should be celebrating more options being made available in the FPGA space; especially if we're getting a platform that can handle higher spec arcade PCBs and consoles than what MiSTer/DE10 Nano can do. Of course, that's a big if right now; and there's certainly reason to be sceptical of the claims being made by MARS, but we shouldn't be wishing them illwill. I'd be well chuffed if MARS turns out to be the super system that it's aiming to be, but I'm also yet to be convinced that it's going to launch and be the product that they are claiming (and I am hoping) that it'll be.

I don't want there to be drama or schisms in the FPGA gaming community, but when some public repos for MiSTer cores get deleted for seemingly no reason by the same people who are producing MARS, it's hard not to notice it and get a bit upset. Seems petty to do that, and certainly not in the spirit of preservation.

I've mostly been able to ignore the rest of the news around MARS. It's a bit hard to root for them after seeing this post and doing more reading on things. Sigh.

The very personal attacks that I witnessed on this public forum of at least one of our prominent members was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. They won't see a dime of my money. I will watch the project with interest from the sidelines.

dcubed wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 6:02 pm

Atohmdiy wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 1:49 pm

The way i see it their solution seems promising. They say they will stay open source and it's the most important to me. I don't understand why people buy garbage from analogue.

Because despite their generally awful communication and endless delays/poor product availablitiy, the products that they do eventually produce are pure quality. I've owned the Super NT and the Mega SG before (though sold them once I got my MiSTer Multisystem) and both were exceptionally well produced systems, I'd still recommend them to anyone who wants to use their original carts (or even ROMs on a Jailbroken firmware) as a completely plug n' play no fuss experience. Just because the MiSTer exists, it doesn't mean that everything else is an invalid choice.

And the Analogue Pocket is still your only option if you want the FPGA experience in a handheld, it's a phenomenal product that is so good that I own two of them alongside a couple of docks; despite also having a MiSTer. They serve different markets and purposes, and the AP is an incredibly well made product that compliments the MiSTer perfectly.

There's no reason why MARS and MiSTer can't co-exist, and we should be celebrating more options being made available in the FPGA space; especially if we're getting a platform that can handle higher spec arcade PCBs and consoles than what MiSTer/DE10 Nano can do. Of course, that's a big if right now; and there's certainly reason to be sceptical of the claims being made by MARS, but we shouldn't be wishing them illwill. I'd be well chuffed if MARS turns out to be the super system that it's aiming to be, but I'm also yet to be convinced that it's going to launch and be the product that they are claiming (and I am hoping) that it'll be.

Yes maybe their product is good quality, but it still close source garbage that i won't ever support. The day this company bankrupt and all their ecosystem is lost to oblivion.

Even without speaking of open source, the genius of Sorge with the mister was to not manufacture and sell custom hardware so he can focus on the core and ecosystem.
If you start to produce your own hardware and build a company around it, there is always the possibility of bad sale and failure. So what happens then to the guys that spend 700 box for a thing that won't do more than the mister "at first"
Because i seriously doubt the naomi or even 3do will be on day one.

i hate to butt in b/c i quit paying attention to the mars fog but "dont feed the trolls" ? you give them what they want : buzz and attention ... replay doesnt put out much hot air (but also hasnt put out a board , agreed) but the lack of hot air gives me a bit more confidence they'll actually get anywhere. afaik intel already has a nextgen agilex to what they're using so theres always gonna be "the next"

so how about getting me a falcon core insted :p (j/k but i would sponsor it if i were in the money sadly i aint)

i ignore everything mars until i see some demonstration working, running and ten channels at once on youtube going WOA ITS HERE ;-p

anyway i wonder what they'll bring other than windows games im not interested in switch or xbox360 games (even tho i had one) thats not retro to me

opinions may differ tho but i really think by talking about them you just feed the trolls here , ofcourse

far be it from me to tell anyone what to say and what not

I tend to agree - I only posted in the first place because pivoting to using actual media is a hell of a dramatic shift for the project, ironically in a direction that's already known to be a road to nowhere (again, as evidenced by the Polymega saga).

You're right, though - it was clearly a combination of "look at me!" attention-getting combined with a cult of personality that attracted actual talent (who will sadly be remembered as associated with this), but it's just a very odd thing to me in general. He had to have known at the very outset that nothing would result from it...why bother seeking attention when you know at the start that by the end you will be considered a very public failure and/or a liar? shrugs