MiSTer FPGA Forum

Hey everyone, I’m having a problem with MiSTER when using black frame insertion (labeled clear motion) on my Samsung TV (S95B). Normally the games look crystal clear, but after a little while for whatever reason something is happening to cause judder and I can’t figure out how to fix it. It doesn’t happen using an analogue pocket or retroarch BFI, only on Mister. I’ve tried changing vsync_adjust to 0,1 & 2. VRR to 0 (doesn’t work with clear motion when set to 1), HDR to 0 and 1, resolution to 720p instead of 1080p with every combination and I’m still getting judder not found on the Analogue Pocket. Does anyone have any idea? The only way to clear the judder is to to turn on VRR but I would rather have black frame insertion. Does anyone know of the .ini settings so the MiSTer outputs the exact same signal as the analogue pocket?

Here is how the analogue pocket looks. Look at the log to the left of mario, it's very smooth:

Now here is the Mister. Look at the same log. it's a juddery mess:

Since the Analogue pocket can do it the Mister should also, right?
Here is my current .ini (with vrr set to 0 so clear motion can be turned on)

Sounds similar to this:
viewtopic.php?t=1718
They were using a Samsung TV as well. I suspect that's your culprit - the TV not liking the signal.
The Analogue Pocket is totally unrelated to MiSTer and doesn't put out the same video signals.

It almost sounds similar to the problems one person has over in this thread, albeit with an LG TV, a RetroTink4k and an HDMI switch, any of which or the core could be the cause or symptom.
viewtopic.php?t=7144&start=120

If you use anything other than straight 60Hz (i.e. vsync_adjust=1 or worse yet 2) on Samsung, it will judder periodically, as it can't sync. Sucks, but that's just how it is. Analogue doesn't have this problem because they don't output non-standard rates (and frankly neither does any TV manufacturer I've seen yet besides Samsung). I ended up buying a cheap(ish) Vizio from Walmart to solve the problem and couldn't be happier...it does custom refresh (within reason, it won't do 57Hz but will do 50) without a hitch (no pun intended).

cables?

Missus wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 10:10 pm

cables?

I’ve unpluggled the mister and pluggled it with the analogue pocket’s HDMI cable in the same input number and it still juddered.

I just fixed it. I thought BFI was only in game mode but you can also run it without. I turned off game mode and now everything works perfectly. Weird because everything else I have works fine in game mode but it’s whatever. Happy I got it working. It looks amazing with BFI.

Game mode has less lag..and it preferable for games..hence its name.
However it works , you added a amount of lag.

Non-Game mode and BFI together enabled? Gives you probably 3-4 frames extra lag, maybe more.

i was one of the people in the linked forum post with a 4K Samsung QLED TV.
while that was my preferred way to play the MiSTer when i first got one, i have come to the conclusion that having a modern 1080p computer monitor is the best all around display panel to combine with a MiSTer (or any other gaming device that sends out odd refresh rates to TVs).

having a computer monitor allows for vsync_adjust = 2 (lowest lag from the MiSTer), smooth scrolling with no judder, and lets me freely rotate the screen in both directions for SHMUPs and old school arcade games. and generally speaking, a computer monitor will have less input lag than a TV.

i would be interested in what kind of lag youre left with in your current TV setting (using a mister laggy).
but, if lowest latency is not your end goal, what you have is just fine!

@PikWik which rotating monitor do you have?

hey hey. its this monitor -

Acer Nitro XF243Y Pbmiiprx
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... y-pbmiiprx

i dont think they are still in production, but im guessing you can find a more recent sibling (or comparable monitor) searching on the internet for "best 1080p monitor". and if you are considering a TV or monitor purchase, always check rtings reviews for the pros/cons. they will tell you every little spec and save a lot of headache if something you need is/isnt compatible. its a good indicator if rtings doesnt have a review for it, it isnt worth the effort

@PikWik I'm very much interested in this for TATE on MiSTer, which is harder to come by than you'd think.

It's still pretty readily available and has everything I want with freesync and BFI.

The real question...can it indeed sync to wacky refresh rates like 57Hz (Moon Patrol arcade), 70Hz (ao486) and 50Hz (for PAL anything)? If so, I'm ordering one today. =)

yes, it can sync to all the weird ones - wonderswan (75.4hz), amiga (50hz), rtype (55hz), x68k (55hz), cave 68k (57hz), neogeo (59.2hz_61.2hz), snes (60.01hz) with vsync_adjust=2 with smooth scrolling.

and i agree. ever since i found out rotating the screen in the MiSTer menu (versus in the dip switch settings) was adding a 1 frame input lag to buffer, and my other problems with my 4K TV not liking the oddball refresh rates, i did my research and got a computer monitor that can rotate 180 & -180. i am happy with my setup and would not go back to a 4K TV. ive been using the computer monitor setup for years now, and have really enjoyed being able to freely look into all of the cores on the MiSTer and play these retro consoles and computer cores.

ultimately, people will have a preference on what they are using the MiSTer to play. some people only focus on classic computers, while others only care about arcade games. for me, i wanted a more rounded experience and to be able to enjoy all of the cores without compromising input latency

PikWik wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 2:45 pm

ultimately, people will have a preference on what they are using the MiSTer to play. some people only focus on classic computers, while others only care about arcade games. for me, i wanted a more rounded experience and to be able to enjoy all of the cores without compromising input latency

100%. Thank you again for the recommendation - I got the monitor and it's exactly what I've been looking for for years. Just the right number and type of inputs, audio pipe out to my reference speakers, syncs perfectly to anything, easy TATE, tiny bezel and inexpensive...fabulous!

Final update: I managed to enable game mode for lower input lag and now my setup is complete with mister on vsync 2, with crt mask (sony pvm), running on my OLED for inky blacks, game mode for low lag, and with BFI for clearer motion clarity than a real PVM (images look like pieces of paper moving).

Trick was to use a different game mode called game mode (auto).