MiSTer FPGA Forum

Can anyone identify what software is being used here to test for display latency?

240p test suite. http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... test_suite

What monitors are being used on the photo? Is one of them a CRT?

SuperBabyHix wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:42 am 240p test suite. http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... test_suite

Thanks! For some reason I knew is was called 240P test suite, must have seen/heard it being mentioned before. Should have googled it, but thanks for the response

bootsector wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:39 am What monitors are being used on the photo? Is one of them a CRT?

It's a CRT on the left, likely a PVM, and on the right is an iPad 3 retina display with a HDMI driver board.

chanunnaki wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:54 pm

bootsector wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:39 am What monitors are being used on the photo? Is one of them a CRT?

It's a CRT on the left, likely a PVM, and on the right is an iPad 3 retina display with a HDMI driver board.

Holy moly!

Someone needs urgently to make ready-to-use monitors based on that retina display for sell!

bootsector wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:15 pm

chanunnaki wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:54 pm

bootsector wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:39 am What monitors are being used on the photo? Is one of them a CRT?

It's a CRT on the left, likely a PVM, and on the right is an iPad 3 retina display with a HDMI driver board.

Holy moly!

Someone needs urgently to make ready-to-use monitors based on that retina display for sell!

Adafruit sell one... they called it QUALIA, but it costs 224$US and is displayport only. Here's a link... https://www.adafruit.com/product/1652

It makes much more sense that someone can design a 3d printable housing for it, but with how many different driver boards there are out there, I think it will be difficult to make a "one-size-fits-all solution".

chanunnaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:19 pm

bootsector wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:15 pm

chanunnaki wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:54 pm

It's a CRT on the left, likely a PVM, and on the right is an iPad 3 retina display with a HDMI driver board.

Holy moly!

Someone needs urgently to make ready-to-use monitors based on that retina display for sell!

Adafruit sell one... they called it QUALIA, but it costs 224$US and is displayport only. Here's a link... https://www.adafruit.com/product/1652

It makes much more sense that someone can design a 3d printable housing for it, but with how many different driver boards there are out there, I think it will be difficult to make a "one-size-fits-all solution".

Do you know the exact model of the HDMI controller being used on that retina display? Maybe it's this one? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000042829925.html

bootsector wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:40 pm

chanunnaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:19 pm

bootsector wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:15 pm

Holy moly!

Someone needs urgently to make ready-to-use monitors based on that retina display for sell!

Adafruit sell one... they called it QUALIA, but it costs 224$US and is displayport only. Here's a link... https://www.adafruit.com/product/1652

It makes much more sense that someone can design a 3d printable housing for it, but with how many different driver boards there are out there, I think it will be difficult to make a "one-size-fits-all solution".

Do you know the exact model of the HDMI controller being used on that retina display? Maybe it's this one? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000042829925.html

There are two boards and it is a crap shoot which one you will get from Ali. One isn't currently working with MiSTer. I personally would rather pay a bit extra and get this one. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R4VR9PR Don't forget to apply the 10% discount on it. I designed a 3d printed enclosure for the LCD and MiSTer you can print. Here it is: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4539779

flynnsbit wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:14 pm

bootsector wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:40 pm

chanunnaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:19 pm

Adafruit sell one... they called it QUALIA, but it costs 224$US and is displayport only. Here's a link... https://www.adafruit.com/product/1652

It makes much more sense that someone can design a 3d printable housing for it, but with how many different driver boards there are out there, I think it will be difficult to make a "one-size-fits-all solution".

Do you know the exact model of the HDMI controller being used on that retina display? Maybe it's this one? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000042829925.html

There are two boards and it is a crap shoot which one you will get from Ali. One isn't currently working with MiSTer. I personally would rather pay a bit extra and get this one. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R4VR9PR Don't forget to apply the 10% discount on it. I designed a 3d printed enclosure for the LCD and MiSTer you can print. Here it is: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4539779

THANK YOU!!!!

How does this test actually work? I always meant to try it out but never got around to it.

You need a way to display the same thing on 2 screens at once, the analog io board + hdmi for mister would work or you can use an hdmi matrix for 2 hdmi displays. Then you put the test on and display it on both screens and take a picture or a slow motion video of both screens at once and you can see how many frames behind one display is from the other.

In the picture above, the frames are the same so the displays have the same input lag. HDTVs have some lag so they will be on a lower frame than a crt if you do this test with a crt and a HDTV.

Thank you. Couldn't I use it with just one screen though, just to measure general latency?

Video I get, but how to synchronize photo and button press?

Is that green led hardwired and used?

What do the numbers in the picture mean? (00:01:48:48 and the red 1)?

This particular test is only for comparing 2 screens.
The numbers are just a timer and will increase as you leave the test up. The frames are how many frames at 60fps has passed.
The big 1-8 numbers are frames too, they just cycle through 1-8 and then repeat to make it easy to see how many frames different the 2 displays are.
Here is an example with my old tv, you will see that the tv is 4 frames behind my computer monitor, because the frames counter on the monitor is at 20 but the TV is only at 16. So that means the TV takes roughly 16ms * 4 = 64ms longer to update than the monitor, which is quite bad. I have since got a new tv that has the same lag as the monitor, which I verified with this test.

The green led is unrelated to the test.

240p test suite has another test where you press a button in time with a moving target to measure latency but it is going to vary based on your controller lag and your own reaction time.

If you want to measure absolute input lag on a tv with just one screen, you will need a special device like the Time Sleuth.

There are also a couple input lag databases that have some displays in them:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag
https://displaylag.com/display-database/

From those sites I was able to find my monitor and new tv, which both have about 10ms input lag.
The test they use should come out to about 8ms on a 60hz CRT TV since it measures how long for the image to change in the middle of the screen, so my displays only have about 2ms over a CRT now which is pretty good to me, I can even play rhythm games made for a CRT on it, like Donkey Konga on the gamecube, which was really hard to play on the old TV.

maxpower wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:56 am There are also a couple input lag databases that have some displays in them:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag
https://displaylag.com/display-database/

From those sites I was able to find my monitor and new tv, which both have about 10ms input lag.
The test they use should come out to about 8ms on a 60hz CRT TV since it measures how long for the image to change in the middle of the screen, so my displays only have about 2ms over a CRT now which is pretty good to me, I can even play rhythm games made for a CRT on it, like Donkey Konga on the gamecube, which was really hard to play on the old TV.

My TV is rated at 9ms of input lag on RTings but it still shows a frame of lag on 240p Test Suite lag test.

Since 240p Test Suite only tests in whole frames, maybe any amount of input lag higher than the CRT would make the HDTV show 1 frame of lag? I guess maybe there should be a small period of time (< 16ms) where it says the same frame?

I don't have a CRT to compare mine to, so I'm just making assumptions about how much lag it has compared to a CRT based on what I have read online and how it feels playing games. It is really hard to say for sure without having something like Time Sleuth and comparing both displays with that.

flynnsbit wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:14 pm

bootsector wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:40 pm

chanunnaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:19 pm

Adafruit sell one... they called it QUALIA, but it costs 224$US and is displayport only. Here's a link... https://www.adafruit.com/product/1652

It makes much more sense that someone can design a 3d printable housing for it, but with how many different driver boards there are out there, I think it will be difficult to make a "one-size-fits-all solution".

Do you know the exact model of the HDMI controller being used on that retina display? Maybe it's this one? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000042829925.html

There are two boards and it is a crap shoot which one you will get from Ali. One isn't currently working with MiSTer. I personally would rather pay a bit extra and get this one. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R4VR9PR Don't forget to apply the 10% discount on it. I designed a 3d printed enclosure for the LCD and MiSTer you can print. Here it is: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4539779


20200628_171349.md.jpg

Wooww. This design is awesome. I will print this soon. After i get my iPad display working with the MiSTer Thanks for posting this.

No problem, If you are good at tweaking 3d files let me know and I can share the tinkercad. It needs a carve out for the User IO port. I just used my soldering iron tip to cut out a spot for mine so I could connect the SNAC. Also, I planned to go back and add screw holes to the 3 pieces and a better mounting system for the HDMI breakout board for the LCD. Again, if you are so inclined, please improve and share back with the community.

Cool thx Flynnsbit, i probably just print it as is for my 2nd mister.

I was planning on making a semi portable mister case with built in iPad screen. No battery's but easy to move around. I will share those files on thingiverse aswell and link them up here. But i will take a while