Direct Video Output

[saucier]

I'm using my MiSTer with a Sony PVM 20L5, and this core does not seem to work correctly (i.e., my display does not handle it) when used via direct video (the output from the IO board works fine). The direct video mode seems to be using some super resolution mode, with a higher horizontal resolution than the original. Is there a reason that direct video doesn't use the native resolution?

[akeley]

Your PVM can handle 31khz VGA?

[saucier]

Yes, the 20L5 is multiformat, and can handle a variety of signals with a horizontal frequency between 15 and 45 kHz.

[saucier]

In general, my expectation is that direct video would provide the same (presumably native) resolution and refresh rate as the analog output on the I/O board. If they differ, and particularly in cases such as this where the native resolution is supported by my display, but the resolution of the direct video output is not, is this considered a bug? Should I open an issue for this?

[retrorepair]

It certainly doesn't sound right, I would.

[johnny5]

Just wanted to confirm that Direct Video over IO doesn't work for me using a PC CRT monitor for this core either.

[eightbit]

I am using the IO 6.1 board with YPbPr to a Sony Wega and it is not working for me at all. I just completely lose video signal as soon as the core is launched. I would have suspected it to work as the real machine pumps basically the same resolution and refresh rate as the Amiga.....and minimig works fine on this CRT. I think there is a problem with the core.

[akeley]

I am using the IO 6.1 board with YPbPr to a Sony Wega and it is not working for me at all.

Atari ST core for some reason outputs 31Khz so it won't work on your (and mine) consumer CRT TV. OP meant it's not working on CRT VGA monitors when used via Direct Video (but is ok via I/O).

[retrorepair]

I am using the IO 6.1 board with YPbPr to a Sony Wega and it is not working for me at all.

Atari ST core for some reason outputs 31Khz so it won't work on your (and mine) consumer CRT TV. OP meant it's not working on CRT VGA monitors when used via Direct Video (but is ok via I/O).

That's down to your set up. It works fine on both of my consumer TVs. Check your config.

[akeley]

That's down to your set up. It works fine on both of my consumer TVs. Check your config.

Well, whaddyaknow. I thought it's impossible, seeing as Wiki mentions high frequencies.

Tried it again, after update, and now it shows some signs of life - I get heavy rolling (as oposed to nothing before). I don't really have any config for ST, and all my other cores work fine with the standard one. Could you share your settings? Are you on IO or DV? (I'm using DV).

[eightbit]

That's down to your set up. It works fine on both of my consumer TVs. Check your config.

The problem is, if the config is wrong....how do I adjust it with no video? Only solution would be to connect the MiSTer to an HDMI TV in order to see the settings to adjust?

[shazz]

Hi,
I tried using the IO Board 5.5 and direct video, doesn't work on my Sony PVM14N5U. I don't know if it can support 31KHz horizontal frequency, I cannot find the detailed specs. That's one of the few cores I cannot manage to run on "VGA" and Direct-mode.

I tried other cores supposed to be at > 15KHz:
- Apple II core works (and seems to be at 30.62 KHz)
- Lunar Lander: doesnt'work well, double diplay
- 1 942: works (37.77 KHz)
- Lode Runner: works (37.8 KHz)
- Space Invaders: works (37.8kHz)
- Vectrex: doesn't work but show things
- BBX Micro: works (62.5kHz ?)
- MacPlus: doesn't work but display things (22.06kHz)

The Atari ST one is the only one I found which is just a black screen and "No signal".

Any plan to switch the core to 15 KHz ?

[retrorepair]

The core IS capable of 15khz. I don't recall having to do anything special in order to achieve this, it just worked.

Make sure composite sync is enabled in the mister.ini and any VGA scalers are off.

[retrorepair]

My cat basking in the green lovelyness of the Atari ST Mister core in 15khz (over RF no less).

[retrorepair]

Ah, this is over VGA port, it may be this core isn't configured for direct video output over HDMI.

[buttersoft]

Did anyone file an issue for this? I'd like to be able to get 15kHz with Direct Video over HDMI...

[shazz]

I did: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/AtariST_MiSTer/issues/9

[shazz]

My cat basking in the green lovelyness of the Atari ST Mister core in 15khz (over RF no less).

Can you, in the mister config.ini file, set:

Code: Select all

video_info=10

Like that when the core is started a popup will display the H and V frequencies when running over the VGA port.

Thanks !

[retrorepair]

My cat basking in the green lovelyness of the Atari ST Mister core in 15khz (over RF no less).

Can you, in the mister config.ini file, set:

Code: Select all

video_info=10

Like that when the core is started a popup will display the H and V frequencies when running over the VGA port.

Thanks !

I can but it will be around 15khz horizontal and 50hz vertical. My TV won't do 31khz.

[shazz]

If you can test because I'm not sure the Atari ST core operates at 15KHz like a real ST. Thanks in advance.... I cannot test myself as my tv receives no signal and others cores at 15KHz work pretty well.

[retrorepair]

As I've said before, I'm not using direct video, I'm using the VGA port on the I/O board.

Direct video requires each core to support it and I can't test that as I have no HDMI to VGA adapter. If it isn't working but other cores are, I'd assume direct video either isn't implemented in the core or there's a bug (if your 100% sure on your settings).

Have you tried deleting the config for the ST core?

[shazz]

As I've said before, I have the same problem using the IO Board 5.5 (so using the VGA port) AND direct video (using an HDMI to VGA adapter). But no worries, I was told that yes, the Atari ST core is using a 31HKz horizontal frequency so that explains why I doesn't work.

Yes I tried everything, a new configuration and so on.

[Hodor]

If you can test because I'm not sure the Atari ST core operates at 15KHz like a real ST. Thanks in advance.... I cannot test myself as my tv receives no signal and others cores at 15KHz work pretty well.

Atari ST core works fine with Direct Video and 15Khz horizontal sync. I can confirm you this because is my actual config with GEM´s medium and low resolution. If I choose high resolution then I need to plug in a 31KHz monitor.

For the sake of clarity, my setup is: HDMI to VGA adapter and VGA---->Scart

[akeley]

Atari ST core works fine with Direct Video and 15Khz horizontal sync. I can confirm you this because is my actual config with GEM´s medium and low resolution. If I choose high resolution then I need to plug in a 31KHz monitor.

For the sake of clarity, my setup is: HDMI to VGA adapter and VGA---->Scart

Great to hear from somebody using DV as well. I've been trying to get it working on similar setup (DV--->SCART CRT TV) for a very long time, to no avail. All I get is a rolling, jumpy image.

Could you do me a great favour and post your mister.ini? I would really love to get this core going.

[Hodor]

Atari ST core works fine with Direct Video and 15Khz horizontal sync. I can confirm you this because is my actual config with GEM´s medium and low resolution. If I choose high resolution then I need to plug in a 31KHz monitor.

For the sake of clarity, my setup is: HDMI to VGA adapter and VGA---->Scart

Great to hear from somebody using DV as well. I've been trying to get it working on similar setup (DV--->SCART CRT TV) for a very long time, to no avail. All I get is a rolling, jumpy image.

Could you do me a great favour and post your mister.ini? I would really love to get this core going.

Of course, here is it:

Code: Select all

[MiSTer]
key_menu_as_rgui=0     ; set to 1 to make the MENU key map to RGUI in Minimig (e.g. for Right Amiga)
forced_scandoubler=0  ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
ypbpr=0                ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=1       ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.
vga_scaler=0           ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
hdmi_audio_96k=0       ; set to 1 for 96khz/16bit HDMI audio (48khz/16bit otherwise)
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002 ; VIDPID of keyrah for special code translation (0x23418037 for Arduino Micro)
vscale_mode=0          ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
                       ; 1 - use integer scale only.
                       ; 2 - use 0.5 steps of scale.
                       ; 3 - use 0.25 steps of scale.
vscale_border=0        ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
;bootscreen=0          ; uncomment to disable boot screen of some cores like Minimig. 
;mouse_throttle=10     ; 1-100 mouse speed divider. Useful for very sensitive mice
rbf_hide_datecode=0    ; 1 - hides datecodes from rbf file names. Press F2 for quick temporary toggle
menu_pal=0             ; 1 - PAL mode for menu core
hdmi_limited=0         ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
                       ; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=1         ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
fb_size=0              ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=1          ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
osd_timeout=30         ; 5-3600 timeout (in seconds) for OSD to disappear in Menu core. 30 seconds if not set.
                       ; Background picture will get darker after double timeout

; 1 - enables the recent file loaded/mounted.
; WARNING: This option will enable write to SD card on every load/mount which may wear the SD card after many writes to the same place
;          There is also higher chance to corrupt the File System if MiSTer will be reset or powered off while writing.
recents=0

; lastcore - Autoboot the last loaded core (corename autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; lastexactcore - Autoboot the last loaded exact core (corename_yyyymmdd.rbf autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; corename - Autoboot first corename_*.rbf found on the SD/USB
; corename_yyyymmdd.rbf - Autoboot first corename_yyyymmdd.rbf found on the SD/USB
;bootcore=lastcore    ; uncomment to autoboot a core, as the last loaded core.
bootcore_timeout=10  ; 10-30 timeout before autoboot, comment for autoboot without timeout.

; Option to load the custom font. Format is plain bitmap 8x8.
; Supported sizes of font:
;   768 bytes - chars 32-127 (only alpha + numeric)
;  1024 bytes - chars 0-127
;  1136 bytes - chars 0-141
;  up to 2048 - only chars 0-141 will be used.
; if first 32 chars are empty (for sizes 1024 bytes and more) then they are skipped.
font=font/myfont.pf

; USER button emulation by keybaord. Usually it's reset button.
; 0 - lctrl+lalt+ralt (lctrl+lgui+rgui on keyrah)
; 1 - lctrl+lgui+rgui
; 2 - lctrl+lalt+del
; 3 - same as 0 (lctrl+lalt+ralt on keyrah)
reset_combo=0

dvi_mode=0             ; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.

; 0 - 1280x720@60
; 1 - 1024x768@60
; 2 - 720x480@60
; 3 - 720x576@50
; 4 - 1280x1024@60
; 5 - 800x600@60
; 6 - 640x480@60
; 7 - 1280x720@50
; 8 - 1920x1080@60
; 9 - 1920x1080@50
;10 - 1366x768@60
;11 - 1024x600@60
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz
;   video_mode=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250
video_mode=3

; set to 1-10 (seconds) to display video info on startup/change
video_info=0

; Set to 1 for automatic HDMI VSync rate adjust to match original VSync.
; Set to 2 for low latency mode (single buffer).
; This option makes video butter smooth like on original emulated system.
; Adjusting is done by changing pixel clock. Not every display supports variable pixel clock.
; For proper adjusting and to reduce possible out of range pixel clock, use 60Hz HDMI video
; modes as a base even for 50Hz systems. 
vsync_adjust=0

; If you monitor doesn't support either very low (NTSC monitors may not support PAL) or 
; very high (PAL monitors may not support NTSC) then you can set refresh_min and/or refresh_max
; parameters, so vsync_adjust won't be applied for refreshes outside specified.
; These parameters are valid only when vsync_adjust is non-zero.
refresh_min=0
refresh_max=0

; These parameters have the same format as video_mode.
; You need to supply both PAL and NTSC modes if you want vsync_adjust to switch between
; predefined modes as a base. This will reduce the range of pixel clock.
;video_mode_ntsc=0
;video_mode_pal=7

; 1-10 (seconds) to display controller's button map upon first time key press
; 0 - disable
controller_info=6

; JammaSD keys to joysticks translation
; You have to provide correct VID and PID of your input device
jammasd_vid=0x04D8
jammasd_pid=0xF3AD

[AtariST]
composite_sync=0

[ZX81]
composite_sync=0

[Pacman]
composite_sync=0

Notice that I need to set composite_sync to 0 on the Atari ST core because I suffer sync problems otherwise.

[akeley]

Notice that I need to set composite_sync to 0 on the Atari ST core because I suffer sync problems otherwise.

Thank you. For a moment I was wildly hopeful tha the above might be the key to solving my woes, alas...I just got a regularly rolling image, as it happens in general with cs=0 on my setup. With cs=1 the rolling on the ST core is more random and kind of "jumpy"

This issue is now really doing my head in. I basically copy-pasted your .ini and put it on my MiSTer. Why on Earth is it not working since we're on similar setups?

Could you describe yours a bit more? What TV are you using? I've tried it on two PAL Trinitrons (NTSC capable), from the post-2000 period. My cable is VGA-to-SCART from Lotharek (for MiST), connecting to RGB SCART in my TV. I did not mod it by adding that recommended resistor, did you?

Do you think internal core settings might play any role? I did try to change them before, when having stable picture on my PC VGA monitor, then going back to the TV. I've also tried a bunch of different TOS/machine configurations.

Finally my DAC is Logilink with the AG6200 chip. I've tried nearly all the other cores which are supposed to work on 15Khz CRTs and they are fine, with exception of Amstrad PCW which acts a bit similar as the ST one.

[Hodor]

Notice that I need to set composite_sync to 0 on the Atari ST core because I suffer sync problems otherwise.

Thank you. For a moment I was wildly hopeful tha the above might be the key to solving my woes, alas...I just got a regularly rolling image, as it happens in general with cs=0 on my setup. With cs=1 the rolling on the ST core is more random and kind of "jumpy"

This issue is now really doing my head in. I basically copy-pasted your .ini and put it on my MiSTer. Why on Earth is it not working since we're on similar setups?

Could you describe yours a bit more? What TV are you using? I've tried it on two PAL Trinitrons (NTSC capable), from the post-2000 period. My cable is VGA-to-SCART from Lotharek (for MiST), connecting to RGB SCART in my TV. I did not mod it by adding that recommended resistor, did you?

Do you think internal core settings might play any role? I did try to change them before, when having stable picture on my PC VGA monitor, then going back to the TV. I've also tried a bunch of different TOS/machine configurations.

Finally my DAC is Logilink with the AG6200 chip. I've tried nearly all the other cores which are supposed to work on 15Khz CRTs and they are fine, with exception of Amstrad PCW which acts a bit similar as the ST one.

Well, sometimes weird things happen. For example, Tecmo core gave me a rolling picture before summer whatever composite_sync value I chose. But several months later suddenly works fine with great quality. Reason? I don´t know, maybe the core updates worked out my problem.

Having said that, my TV is a 15 inches PAL Samsung which supports NTSC over SCART without any issues. The VGA-Scart cable is pretty normal and unmodded, nothing fancy or expensive -I bought it on www.retrocables.es, a decent online spanish retro-store-.

I don´t think your problem is related with machine´s internal config so choosing different TOS or Atari ST models won´t do nothing, unfortunately. Have you tried another VGA-Scart cable? Someone once told me that they can be picky, so perhaps the key is there.

My DAC is a Ugreen, this one specifically https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B00NBUTHJG/. I bought it because was thoroughly recommended in Atari-Forum. It´s cheap and works as expected.

Amstrad PCW core doesn´t work for me either on my 15Khz TV. Despite every option I choose it shows a very unstable and useless picture

I hope any of this gets you any help.

[akeley]

I don't really see how cables could be "picky", at least ones from a professional seller (Lotharek makes MiST boards). I doubt this is really the issue. We are also using the same cores. Perhaps it's something about the DAC, but mine works fine with everything else, so... who knows

Anyway, thanks for the info, at least I have some frame of reference now. Hopefully, one day...

[Hodor]

I don't really see how cables could be "picky", at least ones from a professional seller (Lotharek makes MiST boards). I doubt this is really the issue. We are also using the same cores. Perhaps it's something about the DAC, but mine works fine with everything else, so... who knows

Anyway, thanks for the info, at least I have some frame of reference now. Hopefully, one day...

Me neither. I was just stating some info I was told. When I first suffered from rolling picture my initial thought was the cable. In the end, the issue wasn´t related to it but to the cores themselves. Once they improved, everything begun to run flawlessly.

I hope you´ll ultimately resolve the problem. Atari ST core deserves a good RGB/Scart 15Khz video signal to be properly enjoyed. At least from my point of view